BTW DeanK is the panel in question a Federal Pioneer panel?
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Message [Page 2 of 2]
27 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:23 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
Don't forget the 20A breaker for the microwave circuit. My microwave trips the circuit ALL the fricken time.AGEsAces wrote:Ok...I am NOT a certified electrician, but one of my best friends is, and has been to my house frequently educating me on the codes...and
As part of my job, I'm REQUIRED to learn some of the codes and have taken several courses for doing so...
#1 - Arc-fault is a breaker...it goes in the breaker box. IF you have arc-fault breakers, you DO NOT put a GFI outlet on it...no matter what room it goes to. It will NOT increase your protection...one could actually cause the other to fail.
#2 - GFI outlets can NOT be used as the first part of a chain for bathrooms or kitchens. Each outlet in those rooms must be GFI alone (unless arc-fault breakers are installed)...that said...
#3 - Kitchen outlets must have independent wiring run to EACH outlet within 1m of the sink or water source...they can share a common ground, but must each have a separate lead wire. Quite typically these days...a 3-wire is run to an outlet with a red feeding a top socket, and a black feeding the bottom, and a shared/common neutral (white).
#4 - Most of the changes for the codes came in late 2008, and will be required in all new construction and home renovations by 2011...though the inspectors are requesting/requiring changes being made now for some things (like the TR outlets). Basically they are allowing a timeframe to use up old wiring before requiring the change.
Like I said though...I'm not a certified electrician, but these few things I do know, and have installed enough electrical components over the last few years (which have been inspected by both an electrician and an inspector) to know they are accurate.
And Dean...yes...there is a device you can buy that will trip breakers to test them. It's a plug that's grounded...and it's designed to safely trip a breaker.
All those rules apply in new construction and renovations. Obviously that will not be the case on older wired homes.
Another thing to look for when using GFIs to protect an entire circuit is nuisance tripping. GFIs trip around 5ma of leakage to ground. Each device in a circuit has a minimal amount of natural leakage. Reaching 5ma is not hard.
Also, don't do that series GFI thing around pools and spas etc... This is NOT the place for short-cuts.
28 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:29 pm
AGEsAces
moderator
grumpy old man wrote:Also, don't do that series GFI thing around pools and spas etc... This is NOT the place for short-cuts.
Pools/spas have their own rules...actually, anything outside does.
ALL Outdoor outlets have to be rated for outdoors, be in a box rated for outdoor (plastic now, though some metal still exist), AND be GFI protected or Arc-Fault.
They, like kitchens, are also required to have dedicated lines from the box to the outdoors.
And if you go more than a certain distance outside the house, you either have to use a special type of wire, or have it encased in a conduit (PVC usually).
The size of the breaker (15Amp/20Amp/etc.) should be determined by what it will be used for. If you're using ANYTHING which will generate heat...20Amp should be a minimum...especially if you're generating heat AND running something else on the same breaker.
29 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:43 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
Oh, and use the right sized wire.
30 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:48 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
Oh, and AA, you're talking "RULES". Smart people follow them. Even when it comes to things electrical certain peeps don't always follow them.
Don't know about arc-fault outdoor in lieu of ground fault. I've been away from the electrical field for a while now, but I seriously doubt the code allows them do be used interchangeably outdoor. Two different animals designed for two very different functions...
Don't know about arc-fault outdoor in lieu of ground fault. I've been away from the electrical field for a while now, but I seriously doubt the code allows them do be used interchangeably outdoor. Two different animals designed for two very different functions...
31 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
Well I guess I need to go to home depot or rona and buy the circuit breaker tripper and then return my unused gift the next day
32 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:55 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
grumpy old man wrote:BTW DeanK is the panel in question a Federal Pioneer panel?
you know... that does ring a bell. I can check closer when I get home though, but my dad did not recognize the brand name
33 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:06 pm
grumpy old man
administrator
Federal Pioneer had a MAJOR product recall several years ago. Their single pole 15A breakers had a fault that was not fail-safe.
At that time the circuit breaker handles were black or blue. To distinguish between the recalled breakers and new breakers look for blue-handled breakers with a hole through the handle.
In some circumstances these breakers may not trip. In other cases, the breakers will continue to protect anticipated overloads and short circuit currents. If the circuit breaker does not perform as intended, there is potential for property damage and/or personal injury. There have been no reports of injuries or fires as a result of the potential problem.
At that time the circuit breaker handles were black or blue. To distinguish between the recalled breakers and new breakers look for blue-handled breakers with a hole through the handle.
34 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:08 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
ahh frick
oo wait... no this would be a good thing right? because they would be responsible for replacing it??
Do you have a link to where you got that from GOM?
oo wait... no this would be a good thing right? because they would be responsible for replacing it??
Do you have a link to where you got that from GOM?
36 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:15 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
hmmm....
might not be it then as the house was built in 198X although.. the garage was built in 1996... so maybe .....
oh well something fun for me to do at home tonight. sticking body parts in outlets to test em.
might not be it then as the house was built in 198X although.. the garage was built in 1996... so maybe .....
oh well something fun for me to do at home tonight. sticking body parts in outlets to test em.
37 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:03 pm
rosencrentz
uber-contributor
I have a 2006 Canadian Electrical Code part 1 book that I just retrieved from my garbage can, available no charge.
It is 574 pages and I don't know how many other parts there are .
There is nothing in the glossary under breakers, so you all dont know anything!
It is 574 pages and I don't know how many other parts there are .
There is nothing in the glossary under breakers, so you all dont know anything!
38 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:57 pm
eViL tRoLl
contributor plus
Google led me to this document, not sure if it's relevant:
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/customer_services/permits_and_inspections/electrical/electrical_code_2009.pdf
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/customer_services/permits_and_inspections/electrical/electrical_code_2009.pdf
39 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:01 pm
Deank
contributor eminence
muchos gracias
40 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:09 pm
AGEsAces
moderator
Here...one of the courses I took used this manual as a guideline:
http://winnipeg.ca/ppd/pdf_files/HOElec.pdf
http://winnipeg.ca/ppd/pdf_files/HOElec.pdf
41 Re: question for landlords/renters Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:10 pm
AGEsAces
moderator
eViL tRoLl wrote:Google led me to this document, not sure if it's relevant:
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/customer_services/permits_and_inspections/electrical/electrical_code_2009.pdf
This one would be useful if you worked for hydro
.It's their manual on what THEY have to follow...but it's for more primary systems, including the meter, and a little about the box installation/grounding.
I have a copy lying on my shelf here at work.
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