question for landlords/renters

A friend of mine just finished building a new house. As part of this he put a rental unit in the basement figuring the monthly rent would pay for most of the mortgage.

The City inspector comes by and says okay most things look good..your renter can move in.. BUT I want every single electrical outlet in the entire house replaced with childproof ones.

WAAAA?????

This is a rule now? Since when?

yes...and no...it's actually code for all bedrooms now.
Odd saying the "whole house"...and unless he has Arc-fault breakers in the box...he's also required to have GFI outlets in the bathroom and kitchen.

In case you didn't know...if you're doing renovations...wires are also colour-coded now...so if you're upgrading wiring, there's a different colour for each room.

Don't go looking for "childproof"...they are called "TR or Tamper-Resistant"...box of 6 costs about $20 at Home Depot.

Easy to install too...same process as other/older outlets.

yeah.. problem being it is the entire house... with around 20-30 outlets.. at 10 minutes per...well you get the picture. The money is not bad.. its the time.


But it pisses me off more that it is even a requirement at all. But we have had this argument before...

AGEsAces wrote:yes...and no...it's actually code for all bedrooms now.
[...]
he's also required to have GFI outlets in the bathroom and kitchen.

I just moved into a just-renovated apartment building. Among other things, it has all new electrical. The bedroom outlets aren't GFI protected.

One weird thing is that there's a plug on either side of the kitchen sink, both the same distance away. One is a GFI outlet, and one isn't.

RogerStrong wrote:I just moved into a just-renovated apartment building. Among other things, it has all new electrical. The bedroom outlets aren't GFI protected.

One weird thing is that there's a plug on either side of the kitchen sink, both the same distance away. One is a GFI outlet, and one isn't.

Check the electrical panel. You can install a arc-fault breaker for the bedroom circut(s), that's would be considered adequate protection in place of installing all new GFI outlets in bedrooms.

If you have multiple plugs on the same circuit running in series I think you only need one to be GFI for it to trip the circuit. The bedroom code is pretty new so depending on when occupancy was applied for it may not need to be GFI. Not sure how that works if they renovate something that previously had occupancy. If it's a completely new unit there should be GFI in the bedroom. Or a GFI breaker on the circuit.

Never heard of anyone requiring a whole house. If the basement is setup as a bachelor style I could see everything there needing to be GFI, don't know about childproof. Haven't heard of those being required at all, but I don't know a whole lot about codes.

Kitchens and bathrooms require GFI outlets regardless...

on a related note.

I dont think my circuit breaker works and I want to test it. Is there a cheap method that is safer then jamming a fork in the outlet?

yes, your finger or p-Enis...which ever you happen to find first.

JT Estoban wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:I just moved into a just-renovated apartment building. Among other things, it has all new electrical. The bedroom outlets aren't GFI protected.

One weird thing is that there's a plug on either side of the kitchen sink, both the same distance away. One is a GFI outlet, and one isn't.

Check the electrical panel. You can install a arc-fault breaker for the bedroom circut(s), that's would be considered adequate protection in place of installing all new GFI outlets in bedrooms.

Actually it's not either GFI or Arc-Fault. Arc-Fault only are required in bedrooms.

Deank wrote:on a related note.

I dont think my circuit breaker works and I want to test it. Is there a cheap method that is safer then jamming a fork in the outlet?

Have you tried plugging something into it?

If you place a GFI receptacle in series you can protect everything on the same circuit. The GFI receptacle has to be the first device on that circuit. That said, I'd keep the receptacle nearby to test it.

Once again, don't confuse GFI with Arc fault.

umcrouc0 wrote:

Deank wrote:on a related note.

I dont think my circuit breaker works and I want to test it. Is there a cheap method that is safer then jamming a fork in the outlet?

Have you tried plugging something into it?

The break might carry the current, turn off and on, but might not trip. I don't know of any test to see if it will trip though.

What makes you believe it is faulty?

umcrouc0 wrote:

Deank wrote:on a related note.

I dont think my circuit breaker works and I want to test it. Is there a cheap method that is safer then jamming a fork in the outlet?

Have you tried plugging something into it?

I mean the entire breaker box... dont think any of them trip. I have lived in the house 5 years now and not once has one EVER tripped... even when the two space heaters in the garage almost started a fire from overloading the wires.

grumpy old man wrote:If you place a GFI receptacle in series you can protect everything on the same circuit. The GFI receptacle has to be the first device on that circuit.

Cool! That would explain the plugs on either side of my kitchen sink. The GFI protected one is closest to the electrical panel.

well...i don't really understand the whole house thing, if the rental unit is a separate/isolated section...but certainly the rental section should be updated.

The exception would be, since he just built new...he should have put the TR outlets in to begin with...as that's what code has been since 2008.

Deank wrote:

umcrouc0 wrote:

Deank wrote:on a related note.

I dont think my circuit breaker works and I want to test it. Is there a cheap method that is safer then jamming a fork in the outlet?

Have you tried plugging something into it?

I mean the entire breaker box... dont think any of them trip. I have lived in the house 5 years now and not once has one EVER tripped... even when the two space heaters in the garage almost started a fire from overloading the wires.

Ahh, to force it to trip. I don't know of a safe way to do that. I know of unsafe way to do it.

Or maybe the inspector is wrong. Mayhaps a read of the covering code is required...

AGEsAces wrote:well...i don't really understand the whole house thing, if the rental unit is a separate/isolated section...but certainly the rental section should be updated.

The exception would be, since he just built new...he should have put the TR outlets in to begin with...as that's what code has been since 2008.

his electrical contractor should have known that right?

grumpy old man wrote:Or maybe the inspector is wrong. Mayhaps a read of the covering code is required...

whose code would that be?

City? Province?

There's a basement development pdf on the City of Winnipeg site that has some basic electrical in it. All the recepticals they have in a sample wiring diagram are tamper resistant.

It references some other booklet with guildelines.

Deank wrote:I mean the entire breaker box... dont think any of them trip. I have lived in the house 5 years now and not once has one EVER tripped... even when the two space heaters in the garage almost started a fire from overloading the wires.

Very unlikely that every breaker is bad. I would not worry too much that they've not tripped. Your house may be very well wired.

That said, a trick electricians use is to dead-short the two wires on the circuit. I don't recommend this if you don't know what you're doing.

On a dead-short the breaker should trip instantly.

Another thing to do is turn the breakers off and on (called exercising the breaker) regularly. This ensures the contacts don't get fused together over years of use.

Lastly, you can tell the difference between a tripped breaker from one that is simply off. Most breakers have a trip-free position, usually dead centre. If tripped it might LOOK off but the handle will be loose. To reset turn it all the way to off then on.

Deank wrote:

AGEsAces wrote:well...i don't really understand the whole house thing, if the rental unit is a separate/isolated section...but certainly the rental section should be updated.

The exception would be, since he just built new...he should have put the TR outlets in to begin with...as that's what code has been since 2008.

his electrical contractor should have known that right?

If part of the CEC (Canadian Electrical Code) the electrical contractor should have known that and should have installed the correct devices.

Ok...I am NOT a certified electrician, but one of my best friends is, and has been to my house frequently educating me on the codes...and

As part of my job, I'm REQUIRED to learn some of the codes and have taken several courses for doing so...

#1 - Arc-fault is a breaker...it goes in the breaker box. IF you have arc-fault breakers, you DO NOT put a GFI outlet on it...no matter what room it goes to. It will NOT increase your protection...one could actually cause the other to fail.
#2 - GFI outlets can NOT be used as the first part of a chain for bathrooms or kitchens. Each outlet in those rooms must be GFI alone (unless arc-fault breakers are installed)...that said...
#3 - Kitchen outlets must have independent wiring run to EACH outlet within 1m of the sink or water source...they can share a common ground, but must each have a separate lead wire. Quite typically these days...a 3-wire is run to an outlet with a red feeding a top socket, and a black feeding the bottom, and a shared/common neutral (white).
#4 - Most of the changes for the codes came in late 2008, and will be required in all new construction and home renovations by 2011...though the inspectors are requesting/requiring changes being made now for some things (like the TR outlets). Basically they are allowing a timeframe to use up old wiring before requiring the change.

Like I said though...I'm not a certified electrician, but these few things I do know, and have installed enough electrical components over the last few years (which have been inspected by both an electrician and an inspector) to know they are accurate.

And Dean...yes...there is a device you can buy that will trip breakers to test them. It's a plug that's grounded...and it's designed to safely trip a breaker.

BTW DeanK is the panel in question a Federal Pioneer panel?