NHL Rumours... The NHL is returning to Winnipeg

yeah,.. eliminate the divisions right?

JT Estoban wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:Why is that a concern of yours?

I don't want my team taken away again perhaps?

...and all the negatives that go along with that.

While I can certainly relate to that emotion does that mean you'd rather not ever have another NHL team in Winnipeg?

grumpy old man wrote:While I can certainly relate to that emotion does that mean you'd rather not ever have another NHL team in Winnipeg?

Ottawa and their CFL jackassery is a prime example of what I'd NOT like to see happen in Winnipeg. Because it's the CFL, nobody outside of Canada really notices. Because it's Ottawa, nobody outside of Southern Ontario really gives a crap, it's more of a humorous, backwater type situation. An NHL team garners a slightly more attention than the CFL, I think we can all agree?

I'm saying Winnipegers (by and large) have proven themselves to be cheap (or thrifty if your sensitive about it).
That's a very hard stereotype to ignore.

Have things changed since the team was originally re-located....yes, absolutely they have. Have they changed enough? That's the biggest question of them all (for me) and I don't think that they have enough to get Winnipeggers to consistently shell out the kind of entertainment dollars to see this team STAY for more than maybe a decade.

So, to answer GOM's question; I'd rather have a team in perpetuity than a short term rental.

We're close...just not yet (IMO)

JT Estoban wrote:Because it's the CFL, nobody outside of Canada really notices.

So who cares if anyone notices - would be fine if Canadians had a chance to win a cup in something now wouldn't it. If you want the world to notice shape up and get a real football (i.e. soccer) league going. Now an MLS team would be something in Winnipeg.

We're close enough IMO. The financial wherewithal of the proposed ownership group and their management savvy makes me a believer.

We had NHL for 18 years. I'd rather have it for another 18 years and lose it again than to not have it at all.

The analogy I'll use goes something like when you lose your first love after 18 years. You don't take a risk on falling in love again until you are absolutely certain the relationship will last until your last breath? I think you'd be a very lonely person...

grumpy old man wrote:The analogy I'll use goes something like when you lose your first love after 18 years. You don't take a risk on falling in love again until you are absolutely certain the relationship will last until your last breath? I think you'd be a very lonely person...

The problem with that analogy...

You also don't want to jump in bed with the first opportunity that comes along...or you'll end up with a rash you can't get rid of for the rest of your life...or worse!!!

AGEsAces wrote:

grumpy old man wrote:The analogy I'll use goes something like when you lose your first love after 18 years. You don't take a risk on falling in love again until you are absolutely certain the relationship will last until your last breath? I think you'd be a very lonely person...

The problem with that analogy...

You also don't want to jump in bed with the first opportunity that comes along...or you'll end up with a rash you can't get rid of for the rest of your life...or worse!!!

Except in this case, no one is just jumping into bed with anyone......but rather the RICHEST MAN IN CANADA, 20th or so richest man in THE WORLD. That is hardly just a measly first opportunity, one night stand type of deal. And to boot, they are approaching this matter in a very solid, astute business-like manner by not placing all their eggs in one lonely basket, but making invests all around the MTS Centre to make sure that there are no significant losses in tough years, something I already explained in an earlier post. This is the real deal, as David Thomson has money to burn, and Mark Chipman is a very intelligent and successful business man. People like this would not invest in a city like Winnipeg if they didn't do their homework on the matter and didn't feel confident enough to proceed. We will likely not be the top earning team in the league, but we won't be in annual losses either, thanks to TNSE. They will likely even make a decent profit most years, and break even the rest, ensuring the long-term survival of the NHL in Winnipeg. If this is good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

Yeah Ed...I'm actually for a team...as long as it's planned right.

I was just teasing GOM about his analogy .

Personally...I think the NHL needs to get control of their business before they think about moving/expanding much more.

Get control of the players, institute player caps (and I mean no more than $1M/year for ANY player in salary or incentives (private endorsement deals would be separate...but cannot generate FROM the NHL)).

That one change alone could adjust ticket-prices to become more affordable, and smaller (but supportive) cities like Winnipeg to carry competitive NHL teams.

Winnipeg could even afford a team then using the current MTS Centre as a good venue.

The Winnipeg Jets will likely break even at best on a season where they don't make the playoffs. And profit when they do. I believe the potential ownership group will accept that scenario.

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

sheesh.. does no one actually get my entertainment tax reference on that one?

RogerStrong wrote:

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

This sounds like Winnipeg's infamous downtown business tax. And we all know how well that has gone to attracting business to the city, eh? May as well put up a sign that says "closed for business"

EdWin wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

This sounds like Winnipeg's infamous downtown business tax. And we all know how well that has gone to attracting business to the city, eh? May as well put up a sign that says "closed for business"

Nope. I only want them to pay the taxes owed. And to not not throw good money after bad.

Unlike the original idea above of a business tax to support the Jets.

RogerStrong wrote:

EdWin wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

This sounds like Winnipeg's infamous downtown business tax. And we all know how well that has gone to attracting business to the city, eh? May as well put up a sign that says "closed for business"

Nope. I only want them to pay the taxes owed. And to not not throw good money after bad.

Unlike the original idea above of a business tax to support the Jets.

Well, I can tell you that's not going to happen, and if I were TNSE (which had nothing to do with the previous management of the team being a completely different entity)and someone told me that I had to pay someone elses unpaid taxes, I would firstly laugh in their face, then proceed to tell you exactly what they could with that suggestion.

EdWin wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:

EdWin wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

This sounds like Winnipeg's infamous downtown business tax. And we all know how well that has gone to attracting business to the city, eh? May as well put up a sign that says "closed for business"

Nope. I only want them to pay the taxes owed. And to not not throw good money after bad.

Unlike the original idea above of a business tax to support the Jets.

Well, I can tell you that's not going to happen, and if I were TNSE (which had nothing to do with the previous management of the team being a completely different entity)and someone told me that I had to pay someone elses unpaid taxes, I would firstly laugh in their face, then proceed to tell you exactly what they could with that suggestion.

It's the same entity. Renamed, and with different owners, but the same entity. Just like when any other business or home is sold, the new owners are liable for unpaid taxes.

And since the NHL has enough control that they can dictate where the owners can and cannot move a team, one could argue that the team is just a unit of the same organization that left Winnipeg.

I'm not *insisting* that they remite the unpaid taxes. But if anyone claims that we should be paying more taxes INTO the Jets, then let's get the organization to pay us the taxes already oweing, and have them detail how this situation won't happen again.

EdWin wrote:

RogerStrong wrote:

Deank wrote:We should implement a tax in Winnipeg to cover the costs for something like this. Maybe say on all forms of entertainment, maybe call it the Jets tax or say.. oh I know the entertainment tax... yeah stuff like that would go over great

Or, do the opposite. Implement a tax on the Jets. Keep it in place until they pay back the taxes they used a loophole to avoid paying, back when they left Winnipeg.

This sounds like Winnipeg's infamous downtown business tax. And we all know how well that has gone to attracting business to the city, eh? May as well put up a sign that says "closed for business"

Say... Is'nt that what the Provincial Government has done over the last 10+ years? "Closed, unless you have an idea for a new governmental department"

Business shouldn't be paying any Provincial tax, period.

Current and previous MB governments have failed to eliminate all business taxes.

RogerStrong wrote:It's the same entity. Renamed, and with different owners, but the same entity. Just like when any other business or home is sold, the new owners are liable for unpaid taxes.

And since the NHL has enough control that they can dictate where the owners can and cannot move a team, one could argue that the team is just a unit of the same organization that left Winnipeg.

I'm not *insisting* that they remite the unpaid taxes. But if anyone claims that we should be paying more taxes INTO the Jets, then let's get the organization to pay us the taxes already oweing, and have them detail how this situation won't happen again.

That is such an absurd premise I almost did not respond. Roger, I would like you to pay my taxes this year.

Anyhoo, nobody, YET, has approached the city or province looking for a handout. Until such time as that happens it's all pure speculation and not worth my time discussing.

Besides, Deank was makin' a joke me thinks. The notion of an entertainment tax on a team that provided little entertainment...

sigh no.,

I am referring to our dreaded entertainment tax we had that kept concerts and other stuff away for so many years.

you can thank Katz red tape commission for fixing it

http://winnipeg.ca/cao/media/news/nr_2006/nr_20060303.stm

New Coyotes suitor. Me thinks this dude is collaborating with the Ice Edge folks to buy some time.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/ESPN-says-Hulsizer-interested-in-buying-Coyotes-102028088.html

The NHL has also told the City of Glendale that should they be unable to find a buyer to keep the team in Phoenix by Dec. 31st, the league has a ‘a bona-fide offer from a viable purchaser who would relocate the hockey team to another market for the 2011-12 season.’

The Free Press has previously reported that potential buyer is Winnipeg based True North Sports and Entertainment.

Something similar to this statement (from GOM's link) was in the Sun yesterday...though it actually stated that if the deal falls through or is not complete by Dec 31st, the sale WILL go to True North Sports in Winnipeg.

...by then the present owners will have sold all their best players and we'll be left with over-paid broncos...

The NHL are the current owners, and have been since the bankruptcy court fiasco. And no, they won't be doing what you describe.

Next time, come informed!

Mantha wrote:The NHL are the current owners, and have been since the bankruptcy court fiasco. And no, they won't be doing what you describe.

Next time, come informed!

Who is ill-informed here?

All I've seen (recently) are quotes from newspapers who have (supposedly) done all the research.

no no no no, it's a sure thing now, it's gunna happen this time. Honest. Just like all the other times, only for real this time!