Great time for a union to buy!

the Tembec plant is going up for sale. The employees have been locked out since rejecting a 35 percent wage/benefit cut on Sept. 1. The unions have rejected an offer of binding arbitration from the province.

So... since the employees and unions obviously could do a much better job and know more about what is needed then the owners, wouldn't this be a good time for them to step up and mortgage all their homes and borrow as much money as possible and buy the plant? I am sure the provincial government would even give them some sort of loan guarentees.

They can make demands of themselves for whatever wages are appropriate and they can live and die by their own decisions. I am sure they will make a whole wack of money and just offer some complete and total proof that unions know best.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Tembec-plant-in-Pine-Falls-for-sale-78789207.html

How many employees have you discussed this with Dean?

Perhaps the Fontaine$ will buy it and let the union run it and pay them back through profits?

Miz point wrote:How many employees have you discussed this with Dean?

no need to discuss it with them.. The union obviously knows best so they will come up with this plan on their own!

Hmmm.....been down this road before.....the end of it is a desolate place.

No one can tell me this is NOT the perfect time for the employees and the Union to step up and take ownership. The demands from the company were pretty damn steep ( 35% pay cut and who would agree to that?) but the offer from the province of binding arbitation, how the heck can they ignore that? Obviously the unions thinks it could do a much better job. They would probably get it fairly cheap and would probably get at least 50% of the money as a guarenteed loan from the province. So all they need do now is mortgage all their personal property, and put themselves in some huge debt... Should be no problem at all since of course they are right

okay what the hell.

the union says no to binding arbitration... but we are going to help out all the employees who will suffer from the closure?
http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=7306

F that.

"The province will commit $1 million in support of activities and projects of the community adjustment committee."

I guess many are thinking that they should have taken that .35 cent hit. At least they'd still be working.

Fcuken unions...they sure won that war eh.

I think it was a lot more than .35 cents. It was 35%.

yeah 35% hit.

I can see them refusing that as most people would.
But refusing binding arbitration? WTF is up with that? That would have been the best deal for them.

I have been in discussions regarding this strike with some of the workers....Tembec has refused to grant interviews to the press, locally or nationally.....until today's news anyway. Some of the workers are upset with the union because it is the national (american dominated base) that almost always seems to call the shots regarding places they have never visited nor understand. The Steelworkers, in my estimation, have dropped the ball on their paying members.....the Steelworkers are just as corporate as any corporation they have come up against.....I have had dealings with the Steelworkers in the past going back 20 years.....I cannot say I was impressed.

This mill was making money even in a downturn time, even in a time when newsprint sales were flagging......when the 35% cut was put on the table the rank and file knew that the days of the mill were numbered....some members of the union wanted arbitration and would have accepted something - maybe not a cut that deep (ask yourselves if you could afford to live on 35% less) but their voices have not been heard nor has the organization of those voices been coherent. Seems to me that some union members are stuck in the glory days and have yet to recognize that the mill in Pine Falls was the exception rather than the rule in terms of viability and sustainability.

In other words their heads are up their ass.

If you say so....

Hey, where is Grumpyrom?? We need a pro union guy to put their half a cent worth of thoughts into this subject.

How am I to make fun of these guys with out the official pro-union guy here to set me straight.

Bartron wrote:I think it was a lot more than .35 cents. It was 35%.

Damn that Clay Young anyway.

LivingDead wrote:Hey, where is Grumpyrom?? We need a pro union guy to put their half a cent worth of thoughts into this subject.

How am I to make fun of these guys with out the official pro-union guy here to set me straight.

Good attempt at baiting but I'm not biting.

To be perfectly honest I don't know nearly enough about the situation to make any worth while comments. I have no idea if arbitration was even an option that was available or put forth by either party. If it was offered then I'd agree it was foolish to turn it down when it was clear that the only other option was to close the mill. You won't get much argument from me on that point. It's one thing to negotiate when you have some room to do so, but when the writing is on the wall you need to decide if your willing to cut your losses and accept what is available or move on. You need to play the hand that's dealt, and in this case it sounds as if there really wasn't any hope of coming to any sort of agreement without arbitration.

That being said, I don't know too many people here who would accept anywhere near a 35% wage cut tommorow so please think about that before judging those guys. I don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Personally if my employer said he was going to cut my pay 35% I'd move on in a heartbeat.

And therin lies the inherent problem with the union environment.

A union environment rewards members for longevity as opposed to merit. So you have people that are making wages that are out of line with the jobs they are doing. And because of the wages and befits they do get, there is no desire for betterment or to move to a higher position. And if there is, there is usually minimal employer help available because they are paying increased salaries and benefits. And help from the union - unlikely. So what you end up with is relatively low skilled jobs that are being filled with "lifetime" employees, when they should be more of a transient position. ( either move on within the organization or move within the industry).

So when a plant like this closes, you have employees that have spent 20+ years in the same job doing low skilled labour that don;t have skills to transfer to another industry, and have been working a position where the equivilent in the private sector would be paying much less.

Nice when the going is good, but if things go bad, you're f**ked.

exactly.. like I said many times I dont think anyone can blame them for saying no to 35% cut right off the hop as the offer. I do blame the company for saying, fine then we are locking you out instead of at least attempting to negotiate. But I place full blame on the union and its membership for refusing binding arbritation.

At the end of the day of binding arbritation, if the employees dont like the deal, they could still walk and go to a completely new job and I am sure that there would be someone willing to take the job on.

St Norberter wrote:And therin lies the inherent problem with the union environment.

A union environment rewards members for longevity as opposed to merit. So you have people that are making wages that are out of line with the jobs they are doing. And because of the wages and befits they do get, there is no desire for betterment or to move to a higher position. And if there is, there is usually minimal employer help available because they are paying increased salaries and benefits. And help from the union - unlikely. So what you end up with is relatively low skilled jobs that are being filled with "lifetime" employees, when they should be more of a transient position. ( either move on within the organization or move within the industry).

So when a plant like this closes, you have employees that have spent 20+ years in the same job doing low skilled labour that don;t have skills to transfer to another industry, and have been working a position where the equivilent in the private sector would be paying much less.

Nice when the going is good, but if things go bad, you're f**ked.

Pretty much and the ones who are on the Union committees are fairly inarticulate, not media saavy and stuck in a mindset that hearkens back to the days when folks knew they could have a job for life.