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the winnipeg sandbox » winnipeg sandbox.. » local... » more money for the burt

more money for the burt

+5
FlyingRat
AGEsAces
grumpy old man
Triniman
Deank
9 posters

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1more money for the burt Empty more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:53 am

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Money-for-Burt-Theatre-confirmed-54989722.html

Winnipeg foundation 500K
Parks Canada 425K
Burt required to match those funds 925K
"The entire project will cost about $3 million,"
.....
"The municipal and provincial governments will be asked to contribute to the plan, which replaces a previous, more ambitious expansion proposal that wound up being too rich for the theatre."

So the city and the province will be approached hat in hand for about 575K each.

Just how much money are we supposed to pump into that theatre?
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/detour/economy-of--language-a-theatre-by-any-other-name-is-just-as-cash-strapped-49922422.html?viewAllComments=y

Supposedly the structure needs 7 Million or more. Do we really want to keep pumping tax dollars into this theatre just to say we did?

2more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:56 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

IMHO.....

more money for the burt Caterp10

3more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Triniman

Triniman
general-contributor
general-contributor

Existing infrastructure should be maintained. I'm not opposed to some more tax money going in.
Ideally, private enterprise would outright buy the building and actively bring artists to it. Right now, the organization has no budget to actively book concerts and events.

4more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:46 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

5more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:56 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I have never been inside that facility. And I could care less if it closes tomorrow. And I could care less if Winnipeg never again hosts a concert.

But, I realize other Winnipeggers do so enjoy those events. I also appreciate that Winnipeg needs more than streets and hospitals and water treatment facilities. So I do not begrudge public money being spent on this and similar ventures.

6more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:56 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Triniman wrote:Existing infrastructure should be maintained. I'm not opposed to some more tax money going in.
Ideally, private enterprise would outright buy the building and actively bring artists to it. Right now, the organization has no budget to actively book concerts and events.

Why would you say they have no budget?

Getting an act to perform there should be easy...even free (up front).

Acts get paid AFTER they perform...which means ticket sales for a show.

And in many cases, the acts pay the venue a stage fee...and then just get cuts of the ticket sales.

There are many creative ways to bring acts in with a minimal budget.

http://www.photage.ca

7more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:57 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

How much money is enough? Where do we draw the line? Is it good value for money or should another newer building that will last longer and can hold more be built?

8more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:03 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Now the discussion is how much is enough. Fair enough. I don't have a clue. Some people will say pay nothing. Some will actually get angry and abusive. Some say pay whatever it takes. Each issue has different meaning to people. I'd like to think I respect that. I just wish everyone would show a little restraint in these matters.

See how difficult these discussions can become?

9more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:10 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Could a new building be built of the same size for 7 million? I am guessing maybe not.. but I have no clue.

But would a new building need less money for upkeep over the next 50 years?

10more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:21 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Deank wrote:Could a new building be built of the same size for 7 million? I am guessing maybe not.. but I have no clue.

But would a new building need less money for upkeep over the next 50 years?

same size? yes.

but should it be the same size? or should it be made larger? with new facilities and design to make it more functional.

to build a "box-style" building of the same size, and to perform the same (similar) function...would cost about $4M.

Some of the interior components could be transferred over (lighting, curtains, etc.) which could save some money...but would a venue that size be enough? Or could they improve it and make it more versatile for a wider variety of entertainment?

http://www.photage.ca

11more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:28 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Some very good questions that should have been answered before going down the road of spending money to keep the old one.

12more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:33 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Then there is the Met!

13more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:39 pm

Triniman

Triniman
general-contributor
general-contributor

AGEsAces wrote:Why would you say they have no budget?

Getting an act to perform there should be easy...even free (up front).

Acts get paid AFTER they perform...which means ticket sales for a show.

And in many cases, the acts pay the venue a stage fee...and then just get cuts of the ticket sales.

There are many creative ways to bring acts in with a minimal budget.
Here's how the concert business works. The promoter pays an act to perform and hopes to sell enough tickets to make a nice profit. The MTS Centre has a budget to book acts, so they act as a promoter. The West End Cultural Centre books acts, but some acts book themselves. The Jazz Wpg Festival books acts. Ditto for the Folk Festival and the Royal Albert. The Burt doesn't have a budget to book acts, so they rely on other promoters, like Live Nation, to book acts. The Burt is not a promoter. If they were a promoter, they could actively seek out acts to bring in. But to do that, they would need a cushion of money - a budget.
Hope this helps.

14more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:40 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

There's a Met?

What bothers me about it all though...is that when the Walker was originally built...it was built to be a world-class venue...not a bottom-feeder theatre.

It attracted some of the best acts of the world at that time.

Now this "restoration" committee wants to do what? Honour the vision of the Walker by salvaging the degrading facade?

If they really wanted to honour those who built the dream in 1907...they would tear down the dilapidated building, and build a new, vibrant structure with state-of-the-art equipment and planning to attract the best of today's acts.

http://www.photage.ca

15more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:50 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

I just had a duh moment.. WE CANT build a new venue that would be in competition with the MTS centre. So thats most likely a huge reason why no new.

16more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:54 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

you're just being facetious

It would not be any competition for the MTS Centre.

MAYBE, for Pantages or the Concert Hall...but NOT the MTS Centre.

http://www.photage.ca

17more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:58 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Haven't beaucoup bucks been thrown into this facility in the last few years already? Is the the next step or part of what will be on-going maintenance?

18more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:58 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

Why would it be no competition?
numbers alone? I dont think the numbers are in the true north contract

19more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

grumpy old man wrote:Haven't beaucoup bucks been thrown into this facility in the last few years already? Is the the next step or part of what will be on-going maintenance?
sure seems like it.

I dont have any numbers but based on Kives article from earlier this year the amount it needs is 7 million.. does not really say if this 3 million is part of that 7 million or not.

20more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:04 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

My recollect has the city throwing a whack of cash into this when it changed ownership 3? 4? years ago? Add in the benefits that Burt has hosted. Seems to me there was a development plan created.

21more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:10 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

see article from Kives posted earlier in discussion (second link)

22more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:15 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

That pretty much covers it eh? Does it sound at all vaguely familiar?

23more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

heh...

24more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:36 pm

FlyingRat

FlyingRat
moderator
moderator

The interior walls in the theatre are beautiful. It's a nice venue for plays and concerts.

The seats are too close together, and the washrooms are ghetto.

25more money for the burt Empty Re: more money for the burt Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:48 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Why doesn't Burton Cummings step up to the plate? Afterall it's his name on the sign.

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