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Throwing more money at AT

+2
Deank
grumpy old man
6 posters

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1Throwing more money at AT Empty Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:46 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

The head of Winnipeg’s public works department says a $75,000 public relations campaign the city intends to launch about its active transportation routes is not a “damage control” effort in response to public outcry.

The city’s approach to bike routes, paths and other active transportation measures has been criticized by some citizens, businesses and civic election candidates in recent weeks, with complaints ranging from a perceived lack of public consultation to confusion over how to handle traffic circles.

Amid all this, the city recently issued a request for proposals for a communications company to run a campaign promoting the active transportation network and educating people about its uses and benefits. That call for bids closes Oct. 14.

Mayoral candidate Judy Wasylycia-Leis criticized the campaign last Tuesday, calling it “just damage control, and nothing more,” adding the city “cannot outsource responsibility for these kinds of challenges.”

Brad Sacher, Winnipeg’s director of public works, denied that the campaign is being launched in response to public outcry.

“That’s absolutely not the case,” he said, noting the call for bids was supposed to go out earlier this year but was delayed by the departure of Ed Shiller, the city’s former communications director who left in April.

Sacher said the campaign, which he hopes will launch in the spring, is necessary to promote the routes to people who might not have considered using them and to educate people about proper procedure for using the network.

“We think this will give us an opportunity to reinforce the proper and safe use of these facilities, particularly those that haven’t been seen in Winnipeg before,” he said. “But it’s not just about education. It’s really to promote the benefits of these things.”

Sacher said the campaign will differ from a PR campaign called Hike It, Bike It, Like It that the city undertook earlier this year to promote the same active transportation network.

“That was an introduction to what we’re doing,” he said. “The idea there was to encourage people to go to the open houses and get engaged in the consultation process.”

Sacher said the new campaign, which has a $75,000 budget, must be done by a private firm because the city’s in-house communications team does not have the expertise or the time to take it on.

By PAUL TURENNE, Winnipeg Sun

2Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:47 am

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Me thinks Brad Sacher, Winnipeg's director of public works, is lying through his teeth and extremely disingenuous to deny this is anything other than damage control.

If these twits had created a truly effective communication plan BEFORE they wasted this money perhaps they'd not need PR.

This is throwing bad money after bad money. These morons don't seem to learn.

3Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:59 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Wow!! What an incompetent piece of sh it!!

Anybody ever hear about "Hike It, Bike It, Like It "?

(Sounds like an order to me eh.)

This fiasco has to be one of the city's biggest blunders ever.

The more some people open their mouths, the more it appears that a number of people should be replaced.

4Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:05 am

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"Sacher said the new campaign, which has a $75,000 budget, must be done by a private firm because the city’s in-house communications team does not have the expertise or the time to take it on."

I think this is far more telling of the entire situation then anything else

5Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:08 am

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

I thought all those signs that they have slapped all over the place were supposed to identify the AT routes.

Ith all the free publicity they have been getting in the media, why do they have to spend another 75 grand? Question

6Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:17 pm

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Why?

Because what's in the media doesn't explain anything.

Take Nassau Street N. for example....there hasn't been one single word out about what is going on....what is supposed to take place...never mind asking for in-put.

That is complete BS.

7Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:30 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

In this day and age it is so easy to create web pages that very clearly define what an initiative is all about and to illustrate same. More so, they could have included scale drawings of traffic circles and curb bump outs.

Make changes to traffic patterns and flow should be identified in full page ads. Post stuff on forums, alert bloggers, write to special interest groups (all of them, for instance bike groups AND automotive & trucking groups), consult with ALL emergency groups (indeed get something signed off). Make sure that not only immediate residents are informed but others that maybe don't live in the area but travel in the area.

I'm not talking about a minor insignificant interruptions, but permanent, major changes.

8Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:52 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

grumpy old man wrote:Make changes to traffic patterns and flow should be identified in full page ads. Post stuff on forums, alert bloggers, write to special interest groups (all of them, for instance bike groups AND automotive & trucking groups), consult with ALL emergency groups (indeed get something signed off). Make sure that not only immediate residents are informed but others that maybe don't live in the area but travel in the area.

The bolded part is the ONLY part that is needed.
And it should be applied across the board for residents, business, etc.

Someone should have been going door-to-door, or return address letters sent, outlining the proposed changes, and REQUIRE a signature returned to acknowledge the change(s) proposed and accepting them, with a notes section to indicate concerns/alternate ideas.

Once a significant majority of those contacted (say 75%) have responded positively...then (and only then) can the construction move forward.

Otherwise, discussion and counter-proposals must be developed, or the idea scrapped entirely.

http://www.photage.ca

9Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:57 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

that is a ridiculous proposition. Door to door on every issue would stagnate city hall to the point of inability to do anything

10Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:03 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Deank wrote:that is a ridiculous proposition. Door to door on every issue would stagnate city hall to the point of inability to do anything

I don't think I quoted "every issue".

I think it was referring to major/permanent changes that affect a specific area(s).

Things like removing half a street for a bike path, or removing a street entirely are major changes.

Little things (like those stupid bike lanes painted on the roads) wouldn't require the signature thing, as they aren't really permanent...since they have to be reapplied EVERY year forever! Wink.

But basically anything requiring the city to take out a building permit...THAT should have to be approved by those being affected directly by the change.

http://www.photage.ca

11Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:03 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Agree with Deank. A letter, properly marked, should go to all residents within a specific distance (what that perimeter is is up for debate).

That said, a small team of city employees could easily consult with those immediately impacted. For instance, at the homes immediately touching the intersection where one of those redonkulous traffic circles was being considered...

12Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:05 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

see but even the small number of homes makes little sense

take for instance. Assiniboine avenue.

MAJOR impact on entire city, not just the peeps that live in the area.

13Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:06 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

grumpy old man wrote:That said, a small team of city employees could easily consult with those immediately impacted. For instance, at the homes immediately touching the intersection where one of those redonkulous traffic circles was being considered...

Why would the people on the 4 corners be affected more than someone living 1/2 way down the street?

If they decided to put one of those stupid things at the corner of Beverley & Sherbrook...it could SIGNIFICANTLY affect me leaving home or coming home every day for work.

But the corner store might enjoy the slowed traffic in the hopes it would bring more business his way.
So HE gets to vote to accept the stupidity, while I have to suffer it cause I live a 1/2 block away?

http://www.photage.ca

14Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:07 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Assinaboine is such a major change it demanded even more critical communication. Do you know the twits managing the communication for that project TAPED a notice to doors and bulletin boards?

15Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:10 pm

AGEsAces

AGEsAces
moderator
moderator

Deank wrote:see but even the small number of homes makes little sense

take for instance. Assiniboine avenue.

MAJOR impact on entire city, not just the peeps that live in the area.

See...for that one...not that major really.
I see where you're coming from...where hundreds of people are pissed cause they can't cut through a residential neighborhood and get around Broadway deadlock...

And the actual construction they are doing is pretty dumb with the messed up bike lane.

But, having worked down there and seen the idiots during the commuting hours whipping through the neighborhood...if I lived there, I would have voted for a change of some kind...preferably just something to reduce traffic...such as close off the end nearest the bridge, or put speed bumps in.

http://www.photage.ca

16Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:11 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

AGEsAces wrote:Why would the people on the 4 corners be affected more than someone living 1/2 way down the street?
Wha??? People are taking comments/suggestions waaaaaay too literally here.

In this case I suggested the four houses because if someone were to lose control navigating one of those redonkulous circles the car may very likely end up in their yard, or worse in their house, or worse yet run over their child, grandmother or dog...



Last edited by grumpy old man on Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

17Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:17 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

We can't just start shutting off/down streets no matter the objective.

I have driven Assinaboine hundreds of times in the last two years. I don't recall heavy traffic nor traffic racing along. Ditto Grosvenor. If we start pushing traffic off streets like Assinaboine onto Broadway or off Grosvenor onto Corydon we create other problems.

If speeding traffic is an issue go after the speeders. Don't penalize everyone...

18Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:30 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

AGEsAces wrote:
Deank wrote:see but even the small number of homes makes little sense

take for instance. Assiniboine avenue.

MAJOR impact on entire city, not just the peeps that live in the area.

See...for that one...not that major really.
I see where you're coming from...where hundreds of people are pissed cause they can't cut through a residential neighborhood and get around Broadway deadlock...

And the actual construction they are doing is pretty dumb with the messed up bike lane.

But, having worked down there and seen the idiots during the commuting hours whipping through the neighborhood...if I lived there, I would have voted for a change of some kind...preferably just something to reduce traffic...such as close off the end nearest the bridge, or put speed bumps in.

the street was DESIGNED to be used as a higher traffic street. Not as a simple residential street that people are cutting down.

19Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:47 pm

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

So if it was designed for higher traffic, why the hell aren't we embracing that and trying to make the traffic flow better on that street instead of the opposite?

That's just as ridiculous as installing traffic lights on the perimeter highway.

20Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:51 pm

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

...or better yet, figure out why it's being used improperly (if indeed that's the case) and try and correct that.

Personally, Broadway is a joke, traffic crawls along. So Assini is used as a alternative to get the Main (if you want to go south)...so, fix Broadway (if you can!) and that'll help out with the traffic on Assini.

Instead we'd prefer to cripple Assini, and force the bottleneck on Broadway. Nice.

21Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:51 pm

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

because everyone involved in the decision making process has a hardon for bikes?

And we all know how hard it is to think with a hardon.

22Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:25 pm

Sourpuss

Sourpuss
major-contributor
major-contributor

How hard is it to have some bullshit "Public Consultation Meetings" in school gyms/at the rec centre? If anyone shows up to them besides the local community crankpot and a handful of pissed off elderly people, the municipality gets some sort of feedback i.e) this is going over like a lead balloon and the people can't say "Wow! They never consulted us or told us anything!!!"

http://www.citizensourpuss.wordpress.com

23Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:34 pm

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

CitizenSourpuss wrote:How hard is it to have some bullshit "Public Consultation Meetings" in school gyms/at the rec centre? If anyone shows up to them besides the local community crankpot and a handful of pissed off elderly people, the municipality gets some sort of feedback i.e) this is going over like a lead balloon and the people can't say "Wow! They never consulted us or told us anything!!!"
Wait until you receive a notice. They write them as legal documents making it necessary to sort through the whereas & other legalese BS or they get the consultants to send nebulous pamphlets.

These twits need to speak in simple terms with black and white messages.

On Friday, at the community club, we will be discussing how we will be changing Grosvenor avenue by placing obstacles in the middle of the intersections. Here is a scale picture of what this means.

24Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:45 pm

Sourpuss

Sourpuss
major-contributor
major-contributor

I see. I guess I'll be waiting for my copy of whatever bullshit comes up the pipe next so I can nod my head and know I was warned.

http://www.citizensourpuss.wordpress.com

25Throwing more money at AT Empty Re: Throwing more money at AT Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:45 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

I suspect that to most of the bureaucrats at city hall, a public consultation is just a pain in the arse, as they believe that they know what is best for us.

I also suspect that they produced one little 'mailer' that was designed to be inconspicuous and go un-noticed so as to make the meetings meaningless.

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