Why Manitoba will remain a welfare province.

St Norberter wrote:People can sqwak on and on about how the conservatives ran up a deficit and they can't balance the books.

That's a stupid statement to make, because we all know that the last budget was influenced by opposition parties and the fact that it's a minority government.

If this was a majority and they ran up this deficit without the influence of any other party, then fine.

I'm always amused at how the other parties talk about how the Government isn't working with them when they don't get what they want. But when the Gov't runs up a deficit because they have taken into account a lot of what the opposition wants, their dead quiet and even go so far as to criticize the gov't for doing that.

If the Conservatives take credit for anything they've done, then they have to accept the full consequences for running a deficit. Otherwise you'd logically have to argue that it was the opposition who cut the GST and brought in other new legislation. Can't have it both ways hypocrites.

I'm not denying that they ran up a deficit, and it was their budget.

What get's me is that the opposition points fingers and says 'look, they ran up a deficit, don't give them a majority because they ran up a deficit.' when we all know that their budgeting is different when you are in a minority vs. a majority.

One of the problems with minority governments is that good ( but unpopular) decisions rarely get made and popular ( but bad) decisions get made too often.

usedtoliveinstb wrote:If the Conservatives take credit for anything they've done, then they have to accept the full consequences for running a deficit. Otherwise you'd logically have to argue that it was the opposition who cut the GST and brought in other new legislation. Can't have it both ways hypocrites.

It's all well and good to sh1te on the government but at least try to put things in perspective.

If there was a deficit before stimulus can we try to understand why? Would the worst recession in decades be part of it?

It's fine to call peeps hypocrites but at least try for some consideration of extreme times...

usedtoliveinstb wrote:

rosencrentz wrote:Remember this is the Liberals deficit program. The Conservatives presented a balanced budget, but the loyal opposition were going to force an election if they didn't change the budget.
The depression is over any ways , as the GDP was up .4 of 1% in the last quarter, ending 3 quarters of decline of GDP!

The Conservatives were already in deficit before putting forward any stimulus whatsoever. GST cut + recession did them in. I'm not saying I don't enjoy spending less taxes when I buy expensive things, but it was still bad fiscal planning from an administrative point of view.

Conservative/Liberal it really does not matter who was in power when the global finacial meltdown happened. There was no way to know for sure when it was to happen, but they all knew it was comming (the writing was on the wall since Carter's CRA bill).
Bad fiscall planning is not what I would call cutting taxes. Spending Tax money like a drunken sailor through out the 70's-80's is what I would call poor fiscal planning.
The progressive-conservatives implemented the GST to help paydown our debt and Free-Trade/NAFTA did wonders to increase our trade with the USA. The liberals, saw the GST. made all kinds of promises to kill it, then embraced it as if it were their own idea. With out GST and Free Trade, Canada would not have looked so rosey in the 90's and the Chretien liberals would not have won as many elections.
In ending, Bad fiscal policy of the Trudeau era got us in to huge debt and a recent down turn in the global economy is forcing us to go further into debt. Politics aside, all the people governing Canada have done too little too late.

I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

JTF wrote:I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

We'd be in the black.

JTF wrote:I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

Heh.

There's an oxymoron. Layton and lead in the same sentence. F*ck, there is a reason he's called crackpot jack. The scary thing is that there are actually people who vote for him.

The problem with him and Dion is that they had the opposition mentality. Promise the world, because god knows you'll never have to follow through on those election promises. Do you think Dion had any idea how to implement his green shift? Not F'n likely!

St Norberter wrote:

JTF wrote:I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

Heh.

There's an oxymoron. Layton and lead in the same sentence. F*ck, there is a reason he's called crackpot jack. The scary thing is that there are actually people who vote for him.

The problem with him and Dion is that they had the opposition mentality. Promise the world, because god knows you'll never have to follow through on those election promises. Do you think Dion had any idea how to implement his green shift? Not F'n likely!

I ran into Layton once at a pub in osbourne the village, he was plastered and then all of a sudden he gets up and starts stumbling back towards his hotel downtown. He looked like if any bums stood in his way he'd knock the sh1t outta them.

JTF wrote:I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

have you looked at what our debt has climbed to? we are fricked for at least 100 years as it is.

Deank wrote:

JTF wrote:I hate to think of the mess we'd be in if Dion, Iffy or Layton we leading the country through these rough times.

We'd be totally fcuked for 100 years.

have you looked at what our debt has climbed to? we are fricked for at least 100 years as it is.

I miss Chrétien and his surpluses. (and the choking a$$hole protestors)

JTF Tom Brodbeck has a good article on this very subject today

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/columnists/tom_brodbeck/2009/12/03/12018321-sun.html

4 years from now when "reality" sets in and Canada realizes just how bad off we are. The Federal Liberals will have to make MASSIVE cuts to the provincial transfer payments and the governing Provincial conservatives will take the blame of a disastorous Manitoba economy and the NDP will come blazing back in.

Deank wrote:JTF Tom Brodbeck has a good article on this very subject today

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/columnists/tom_brodbeck/2009/12/03/12018321-sun.html

4 years from now when "reality" sets in and Canada realizes just how bad off we are. The Federal Liberals will have to make MASSIVE cuts to the provincial transfer payments and the governing Provincial conservatives will take the blame of a disastorous Manitoba economy and the NDP will come blazing back in.

A deficit today is nothing more than a compounded tax on tomorrow. Harper is raising our taxes through the roof, he's just really good at lying about it.

And while I do wonder just how much worse it would be with Libs of NDips running the show, the insane amount the Cons are throwing us into debt is not acceptable.

usedtoliveinstb wrote: Harper is raising our taxes through the roof, he's just really good at lying about it.

I guess to you down is up eh.

I know of a 2% reduction, but know of no increase.

JTF wrote:

usedtoliveinstb wrote: Harper is raising our taxes through the roof, he's just really good at lying about it.

I guess to you down is up eh.

I know of a 2% reduction, but know of no increase.

Then you dont know how to look to the future.
There is no way spending 170 BILLION more then we are taking in is somehow going to pay itself back without raising taxes in some way.

GST

Deank wrote:

JTF wrote:

usedtoliveinstb wrote: Harper is raising our taxes through the roof, he's just really good at lying about it.

I guess to you down is up eh.

I know of a 2% reduction, but know of no increase.

Then you dont know how to look to the future.
There is no way spending 170 BILLION more then we are taking in is somehow going to pay itself back without raising taxes in some way.

Exactly. It's like maxing out all your credit cards. Then instead of paying back your debt you only cover the interest and ask for more credit. I like to refer to it as a recipe for disaster.

And I am sure the NDP or Liberals wouldn't have done the same thing? oh please.

oh no they would have done worse for sure...

does not make it acceptable.

Deank wrote:oh no they would have done worse for sure...

does not make it acceptable.

True but when you have a minority government you really don't have many choices. The cons did what they had to do. I don't agree but I understand why they did it.

Goth_chic wrote:

Deank wrote:oh no they would have done worse for sure...

does not make it acceptable.

True but when you have a minority government you really don't have many choices. The cons did what they had to do. I don't agree but I understand why they did it.

Except that they always run up huge deficits. It's a cycle: Pile on the debt, then cut services because you can't afford them due to the huge interest payments you have to make on the debt. It's just bad fiscal management. Government needs to be run more like a business, but if the Tories were a company they'd be Enron.

If the Tories had a majority I bet things would be alot different.

Goth_chic wrote:If the Tories had a majority I bet things would be alot different.

LMAO! Wait you're not serious are you? Dude, they are going to destroy the finances and then the Liberals will have to clean everyting up by cutting everything all 90s again and we'll end up with shittier healthcare and worse roads than ever.

"Lowering taxes and increasing spending will bring us into the black!" It's not like past failure is any indicator of future results...

usedtoliveinstb wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:If the Tories had a majority I bet things would be alot different.

LMAO! Wait you're not serious are you? Dude, they are going to destroy the finances and then the Liberals will have to clean everyting up by cutting everything all 90s again and we'll end up with shittier healthcare and worse roads than ever.

Wait!

You're not actually saying that Governments govern the same regardless of a majority or a minority are you? You can't possibly be that naiive and uninformed!

St Norberter wrote:

usedtoliveinstb wrote:

Goth_chic wrote:If the Tories had a majority I bet things would be alot different.

LMAO! Wait you're not serious are you? Dude, they are going to destroy the finances and then the Liberals will have to clean everyting up by cutting everything all 90s again and we'll end up with shittier healthcare and worse roads than ever.

Wait!

You're not actually saying that Governments govern the same regardless of a majority or a minority are you? You can't possibly be that naiive and uninformed!

Are you so naive and uninformed that you trust the Tories not to do what they have historically done over and over again? Do you think that suddenly when they get a majority they will learn how to manage the books? Why don't you ask Ontarians what a great state Flaherty left Ontario in... Or you could just bury your head in the sand and shoot some guns that no longer must be registered.