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the winnipeg sandbox » winnipeg sandbox.. » international... » Terrorists in Prison: is there anything the Right doesn't fear?

Terrorists in Prison: is there anything the Right doesn't fear?

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Freeman
Deank
JT Estoban
7 posters

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JT Estoban


major-contributor
major-contributor

There's another tricky issue that will come into play here as well....

Some of these detainees, well, they aren't charged with anything....at all, yet the government claims that they are still dangerous...so they can't be released.

So what to do with them....the "limbo" detainees as it were...

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

I just heard that the Congress has turned Obama down on his plan to close Gitmo.

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

The "limbo" detainees is the issue. They are obviously enemy combatants and can not be released, and under normal rules of "war", they would be detained until the end of hostilities, so what do you do with them in this case?

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

They aren't going to fund his plan to shut it down until they know what he intends to do with the detainees first.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

He wants to transferr them to various prisons throughout the U.S.

Problem is, the various states that have the prisons don't want the terrorists/detainees/hostels.

They should have just shot the bastards at the time of capture. Fargon iceholes.

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

......or perhaps summarily executed after they were waterboarded dozens of times yet still didn't produce the desired links between Iraq and Al-Quada?

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

I think that either option would have sufficiently solved the issue. That being said, it was not the case so the problem still exists.

Are the Republicans a majority in Congress ?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Naw....just shot on the field of battle, just like that little bastard Omar that's being held and cried for by the panty-wearers.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"Naw....just shot on the field of battle"

you mean like the Canadian soldier is accused of doing even though there are no bodies to proove he did it, and even though the alleged dead were mortally wounded at the time?

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

....I don't wear pantie's, but I do believe in due process....so I'd prefer to be called a "due-process-ist" if you must insist on name calling.


"did anyone mention the fact that a bunch of these "terrorists" are not
guilty of anything. But I guess that's not important. If some grunt
picked them up seven years ago somewhere in the world then they are
guilty of being in the wrong place at the right time, 'n that's good
enough for us."

Source: Digby

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

I guess.

Why they didn't finish off Omar during the firefight is beyond me. New kind of soldiers perhaps...ones that don't think ahead. Just say'n.

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

Please describe "due process" during a fire fight? Its been a while, but I basically remember my section battle drills, and I don't recall "due process."

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

JTF wrote:Why they didn't finish off Omar during the firefight is beyond me. New kind of soldiers perhaps...ones that don't think ahead. Just say'n.

....and ones that don't kill kids I suppose...

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

What firefight?

I wasn't aware that detainees were involved in firefights after they had been detained?

I can only assume that to be called a detainee, that means they had obviously been detained for one, and thusly had been disarmed?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Omar was shot in a firefight.

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

Oh I get it now.

Shot = Guilty?

No need for silly things like charges, evidence, a trial, or verdict...that's already been pre-determined by the virtue that he was present, and was shot during a firefight with other bad guys.

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

SO you're claiming that Khadr was a bystander during the firefight?

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

I don't know that he was, or was not. Only one side of the story has been told so far...and just barely.

Does the possibility not exist that he may have been?

Lets see the evidence already!

~
What I object to is:
"indefinitely locking people away who allegedly pose a
"threat" but haven't violated any laws (if they have, then prove it, with you know, facts and evidence), our normal court
system can't be trusted to decide who is guilty, Terrorists don't
deserve the same rights as anyone else, and -- most of all -- anyone who
objects to or disagrees with any of that is a leftist purist ideologue
who doesn't really care about national security."

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Ya. He was just a little kid that thought the grenades he was throwing were just baseballs eh. LOL

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

This kid was in a firefight and threw a grenade. Killing an American soldier. As for trial etc., he was detained, placed in Gitmo, and will eventually receive a trial.

This was not a situation where some innocent 15 year old was caught up in it accidentally. He lived in Canada, went to terrorist school and found himself face to face with people that don't like being shot and having grenades thrown at them.

This was a terrorist action in a war. Different rules apply. I'm okay with those different rules.

JT Estoban

JT Estoban
major-contributor
major-contributor

If it turns out through a trial that the allegations against him are true, then a conviction should be easily attained.

Should it not?

The fact that it's been 7 years of indefinite detention without a trail is the main issue in that particular case. Try him in a court of law...if the evidence supports the allegations, then sentence him according to the law as you would with anyone else convicted of such crimes.

Why is that so hard?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Not hard. What if the only eye witness was killed by the grenade the little terrorist threw?

Frankly, I just don't care. He should not have been there. He should not have been trained as a terrorist.

My question is why should we care?

umcrouc0

umcrouc0
contributor plus
contributor plus

I don't think it would be too tough to convict someone in a regular court if they were seen throwing a grenade that killed someone. Do you need 'different' rules on a straightforward case?
Maybe it's just me but isn't the fact that we're saying we don't need to treat these people with the same rules as others just used by them as propaganda for recruiting more people into their groups?

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"and will eventually receive a trial"

maybe this kid yeah, but not all of them.. and the only reason trials are FINALLY happening is the world pretty much forced them to.

sh1t at this rate the kid could be sentanced to 21 years in prison, be sent back to Canada because of that and then we would automatically release him because he served 7 years at double credit so 14 total which would be 2/3 of time and he would be released... yay!

Freeman

Freeman
uber-contributor
uber-contributor

How does that work that you have trials for individuals captured during a war? It is totally absurd to apply rules of evidence and the application of laws that are used in our criminal law to situations which, while not declared, are during a war. Declared or not, he is a captured enemy combatant, he is to be detained. Perhaps using Khadr is a bad example, but at least he is one that survived. As far as him trying to kill US soldiers, thats how it works, and the US soldiers were trying to kill him, just as our soldiers are trying to kill the people that are trying to kill them.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

ahh see but they are declared enemy combatants.. not soldier of the opposing army, which gives the US army freedom to basically do whatever they want, be damned the rules of war

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