Umm...Rapid Transit (Would it be a Winnipeg forum without this thread?)

One thing just popped into my brain... Would you be willing to pay $36.00 for a one day LRT pass? More or less, that's just about how much it would cost.
Uhm, maybe by the year 2050, at 36 bucks, the price would be economical.

I would pay $36 , if they would take cheques! lol Are you saying that the costs aren't going to be born by the users? That would definitely make it a worthwhile government "investment" Move people on buses a little faster for 2.8 trillion dollars. I will vote for that! who is going to pay for this? The City-

I know it's an old article, but I thought it was worth another reading through:

3 December 2004
Winnipeg now mulling light rail options
Having put a "BRT" system on the shelf (if not into the dustbin), some of Winnipeg's community leadership now seem to be eyeing rail transit – apparently, either an electric light rail transit (LRT) system, or a diesel or diesel-electric multiple-unit light railway service (like Ottawa's O-Train). "Don't be quick to assume Winnipeg's rapid transit prospects are off the rails" advises the Winnipeg Sun (Friday, 19 November 2004). "Mayor Sam Katz will ride the rails through Ottawa today to see whether that city's system would work in Winnipeg."
The Sun pointed out that Mayor Katz would have an opportunity to "check out" both of Ottawa's "rapid transit options" – the O-Train light railway "and the kind of Bus Rapid Transit system that Winnipeg recently shelved." in addition, the paper noted that he would be joining Ottawa Mayor Bob Chiarelli for a "spin" on the city's three-year-old O-Train system "that has attracted large numbers of commuters."
"I think this will be a valuable experience just to see the impact and talk to people who use it, as well as talk to the people running it and get feedback from them as well" Mayor Katz told Sun after arriving in Ottawa, adding that "it's a good opportunity to do a fact-finding mission."
The Sun reports that OC Transpo, Ottawa's transit agency, has been finding both its light railway and "BRT" systems "hugely successful in attracting riders." The paper relates that, when the agency launched its light railway project in October 2001, ridership was projected at about 6,400 a day. By last year, however, ridership had reached about 8,000 on peak days – and this past September (2004), the service saw at least one day when ridership soared to more than 9,600. And that's for a relatively short, 5-mile line with just 3 stations (see our article Ottawa (Finally) Opts for Light Rail).
Success is fueling ambitious expansion plans. Last May, according to the Canadian Press (14 May 2004), it was announced that the City of Ottawa would receive C$600 million from the federal and Ontario governments "to expand public transit in the capital region". The money is being targeted to extend the O-Train light railway system to Barrhaven and to construct an entirely new route from the south end of Ottawa to the downtown core. Apparently, the program represents largest joint intergovernmental infrastructure investment in Ottawa's history.
According to the Winnipeg Sun, Mayor Katz "likes the potential" of light rail, but warns that "it may not be possible in Winnipeg." Cautioning his constiuents to "Keep in mind that Winnipeg is not Ottawa," the mayor hinted that "we know how money flows to Ottawa that doesn't happen with other cities."
Well, maybe. But how about the prospects for a fully electrified LRT system in Winnipeg? The Sun reports Mayor Katz plans to check out Minneapolis's Hiawatha LRT line in January.
Progress toward a possible LRT is (or some type of rail transit) for Winnipeg is definitely continuing – at least, in terms of evaluating options. On Novermber 26th, the Winnipeg Free Press reported on the launch of a special rapid transit task force, headed by City Councillor Russ Wyatt, which is scheduled to investigate the issues and "recommend a direction for Winnipeg" by summer 2005 (i.e., in about six months).

Electrician wrote:I know it's an old article, but I thought it was worth another reading through:

3 December 2004
Winnipeg now mulling light rail options
Having put a "BRT" system on the shelf (if not into the dustbin), some of Winnipeg's community leadership now seem to be eyeing rail transit – apparently, either an electric light rail transit (LRT) system, or a diesel or diesel-electric multiple-unit light railway service (like Ottawa's O-Train). "Don't be quick to assume Winnipeg's rapid transit prospects are off the rails" advises the Winnipeg Sun (Friday, 19 November 2004). "Mayor Sam Katz will ride the rails through Ottawa today to see whether that city's system would work in Winnipeg."
The Sun pointed out that Mayor Katz would have an opportunity to "check out" both of Ottawa's "rapid transit options" – the O-Train light railway "and the kind of Bus Rapid Transit system that Winnipeg recently shelved." in addition, the paper noted that he would be joining Ottawa Mayor Bob Chiarelli for a "spin" on the city's three-year-old O-Train system "that has attracted large numbers of commuters."
"I think this will be a valuable experience just to see the impact and talk to people who use it, as well as talk to the people running it and get feedback from them as well" Mayor Katz told Sun after arriving in Ottawa, adding that "it's a good opportunity to do a fact-finding mission."
The Sun reports that OC Transpo, Ottawa's transit agency, has been finding both its light railway and "BRT" systems "hugely successful in attracting riders." The paper relates that, when the agency launched its light railway project in October 2001, ridership was projected at about 6,400 a day. By last year, however, ridership had reached about 8,000 on peak days – and this past September (2004), the service saw at least one day when ridership soared to more than 9,600. And that's for a relatively short, 5-mile line with just 3 stations (see our article Ottawa (Finally) Opts for Light Rail).
Success is fueling ambitious expansion plans. Last May, according to the Canadian Press (14 May 2004), it was announced that the City of Ottawa would receive C$600 million from the federal and Ontario governments "to expand public transit in the capital region". The money is being targeted to extend the O-Train light railway system to Barrhaven and to construct an entirely new route from the south end of Ottawa to the downtown core. Apparently, the program represents largest joint intergovernmental infrastructure investment in Ottawa's history.
According to the Winnipeg Sun, Mayor Katz "likes the potential" of light rail, but warns that "it may not be possible in Winnipeg." Cautioning his constiuents to "Keep in mind that Winnipeg is not Ottawa," the mayor hinted that "we know how money flows to Ottawa that doesn't happen with other cities."
Well, maybe. But how about the prospects for a fully electrified LRT system in Winnipeg? The Sun reports Mayor Katz plans to check out Minneapolis's Hiawatha LRT line in January.
Progress toward a possible LRT is (or some type of rail transit) for Winnipeg is definitely continuing – at least, in terms of evaluating options. On Novermber 26th, the Winnipeg Free Press reported on the launch of a special rapid transit task force, headed by City Councillor Russ Wyatt, which is scheduled to investigate the issues and "recommend a direction for Winnipeg" by summer 2005 (i.e., in about six months).

Yeah, Katz was said to be such an advocate for light rail; yeah right. This is why Winnipeg is getting a Second rate system. This article is a reminder of how Katz can't commit to what he apparently believes in.

Time to look into the future, time to act now:
LRT Route North:
Stop #1) LRT main station located at Selkirk West, with Park & Ride, stores, and all necessities. Between Pacific & Vaughan.
Stop #2) LRT small station at Fort Garry, also serving nearby Old England & Little Britain. New pedestrian bridge over Red River.
Stop #3) LRT small station at McDonald. Park & Ride facility.
Stop #4) LRT small station at Parkdale.
Stop #5) LRT small station at Rivercrest, close to Lister Rapids Park. Park & Ride facilities.
Stop #6) LRT small station at Middlechurch.
Stop #7) LRT small station at Old Kildonan, near Fernbank Ave. Park & Ride facilities.
Stop # LRT small station at Leila/McGregor intersection.
Stop #9) LRT small shelter between Dahlia & Matheson.
Stop #10) LRT small station between Mountain & Church.
Stop #11) LRT small shelter between Burrows & Alfred.
Stop #12) LRT small station at Old Ex - Recreation Centre.
New overpass over McPhillips and CP tracks.
Stop #13) LRT small station at Pascoe Park.
Stop #14) LRT small station between Ellice & Sargent.
Stop #15) LRT small station near Empress St. E. serving Polo Park. With some facilities.
Stop #16) LRT small station between Wellington Cres.& Academy.
Stop #17) LRT small shelter between Grosvenor & Corydon.
Stop #18) LRT small station between Grant & Mathers.
Stop #19) LRT small shelter near Rothwell Road.
Stop #20) LRT small station just south of McGillivray.
Stop #21) LRT small main station near Brady Ave.
Future additions would be turning east towards Waverley West and the Red River on city property.
Electrified LRT using existing railway property, building a double track LRT route for two-way service throughout the line.
What do you think? We don't necessarily need to go downtown to serve a large proportion of the population. This is just for starters, the same can be done East of the Red and towards Transcona. Gimme the thumbs up & down for your thoughts about my ideas.

Love my #eight) stop.

I see everyone's very interested in my idea...
:@@@:

So what happened???
Did I scare someone???

Electrician wrote:Stop #1) LRT main station located at Selkirk West, with Park & Ride, stores, and all necessities. Between Pacific & Vaughan.
Stop
#2) LRT small station at Fort Garry, also serving nearby Old England & Little Britain. New pedestrian bridge over Red River.
Stop
#3) LRT small station at McDonald. Park & Ride facility.
Stop
#4) LRT small station at Parkdale.
Stop
#5) LRT small station at Rivercrest, close to Lister Rapids Park. Park & Ride facilities.
Stop
#6) LRT small station at Middlechurch.
Stop
#7) LRT small station at Old Kildonan, near Fernbank Ave. Park & Ride facilities.

I like the stops beyond the Perimteter Hwy., which could be the start of a commuter rail option for our city.

Can you maybe create a Google maps overlay of all the stations?

BTW, Grant and Mathers are parallel streets. Where exactly do you see the actual station?

All you need is GIMP or Photoshop.

Between Grant and Mathers, between, within those two streets.
The main positive factor of a project like this would be the year-round continous service, no snow storms or traffic would bother this LRT.
I'll try to draw the route on a map, but it won't be easy, it's a pretty long ride.

Electrician wrote:Between Grant and Mathers, between, within those two streets.
The main positive factor of a project like this would be the year-round continous service, no snow storms or traffic would bother this LRT.
I'll try to draw the route on a map, but it won't be easy, it's a pretty long ride.

I guess you're not very familiar with River Heights then.

Between Grant and Mathers is alot of middle-class homes. Wouldn't it be easier and better (no expropriation) to just have it on Grant itself?

But again, where would a station be? I suggest Grant @ Cambridge, since there's already a Park & Ride. And the other one would be Grant @ Kenaston because of the mixed use area - Supervalu etc... already in existance.

Grant is *always* ploughed *first* before Mathers because it carries much more vehicular traffic.

But maybe a full-scale LRT would be too much for Grant. All we need is a smaller tram/streetcar to carry passengers to and from Stafford Station on the Pembina-William subway line and to and from Polo Park / Charleswood at the other end.

To create the right of way map onto Google maps:

1) Set up your map on Google, then save that zoomed section (most of or all) of Winnipeg.

2) Save As... (a PNG or JPG or TIF) using your "Take Screenshot" applet.

3) Load the image into Gimp (FREE), Inkscape (FREE), Adobe Illustrator ($), or Photoshop ($).

4) Create a New Layer... and just draw your lines on that layer.

5) Save as filetype above (as per your software)

6) Export to a New (different filename) to a PNG or JPG. This will combine all the layers into one.

7) Upload to your favourite hosting site.

Congratulate yourself.

will do, tomorrow... gotta go to bed.

If you build a commuter rail station at Middlechurch, how about making it close to the cemetaries so people can visit their go-befores grave sites.

Time to remind the old folks about how to move about:

I actually have a slight bit more repect for Mr. Katz now. This could be a major step for rapid transit in the LONG-TERM for Winnipeg, and I for one like it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/04/21/mb-light-rail-transit-winnipeg.html#socialcomments

yeah...seems kind of funny the discussions he's having NOW...i think he's been reading my posts here .

NOW? heh.. Sam has been trying to push for LRT since day one. He has been working people and working people. Only in the last yearish has LRT become a good idea again that more people are willing to support.

City puts focus on streetcars

-- Investigation of options reveals lower cost -- Katz set to push concept with province

By: Bartley Kives
5/06/2010 1:00 AM | Comments: 25

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Bombardier-produced streetcars in action in Vancouver. (CP)


Winnipeggers confused about the future of rapid transit may be pleased to learn streetcars are what Mayor Sam Katz desires.
The City of Winnipeg's investigation of new light-rail technology involves a flexible streetcar that can negotiate downtown streets and also travel up to 80 kilometres per hour on dedicated transitways, Katz and Winnipeg public works director Brad Sacher said Friday.
The vehicles, which resemble both buses and trains, can run on tracks embedded on streets as well as on transitways such as the first phase of the Southwest Rapid Transit Corridor, which is already under construction, Sacher said.
Variations of the electric-powered streetcars are made by Montreal manufacturer Bombardier, Siemens in Mississauga and Inekon in Czech Republic. They're already in use in Vancouver, Portland and Seattle and are heading to Toronto, which awarded Bombardier a contract to supply 204 of them for $1.2 billion in 2009.
Winnipeg is in the midst of completing the $138-million first phase of the Southwest Rapid Transit Corridor, which runs from The Forks to Jubilee Avenue, as a busway. In February, Katz announced his intention to place Phase Two, a $210-million extension that would continue to the University of Manitoba, on hold until the city investigates light rail.
Council's decision to spend $100,000 studying new light-rail technologies this spring angered bus rapid transit proponents on council and confused the Selinger government, which wants to see the city commit to completing Phase Two as a busway.
But Katz said the city received new information about light-rail technology whose infrastructure only costs $50 million per kilometre, which would be far cheaper than previous estimates -- and only 32 per cent more expensive than bus rapid transit.
"We're looking at LRT-lite, which is a wonderful, futuristic-looking train," Katz said Friday in an interview, adding consulting firms the city has hired -- Dillon and HDR -- have confirmed streetcar infrastructure would only cost $50 million per kilometre.
"This shows all three levels of government we can do something (other than bus rapid transit) with the money we've been talking about."
The mayor said the Selinger government -- not Ottawa -- has resisted upgrading bus rapid transit to light rail. Katz said he hopes he can convince the province new streetcar technology is viable, once city staff complete a report about the streetcars.
The flexible streetcar has a smaller turning radius than a conventional train, allowing it to operate in mixed traffic, Sacher said. Aside from the installation of tracks, additional costs associated with the technology include a storage and maintenance space for the vehicles as well as overhead lines to power them.
Streetcars ran on rails in Winnipeg until 1955, while electric buses connected to overhead wires were phased out during the 1960s. Winnipeg Transit rejected a push by Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt to bring back trolley buses in 2010.
Katz said the new vehicles are nothing like old streetcars. "I got excited when I saw them, and I don't get excited that easily," he said.
Converting busways to light-rail transit is possible in Winnipeg, provided busway design takes into account factors such as the height of station platforms and turning radii, Dillon Consulting concluded in a 2008 report made public on Wednesday.
In a separate 2009 report, also released on Wednesday, consulting firm HDR concluded both bus rapid transit and light-rail transit offer Winnipeg clear financial benefits. HDR's cost-benefit analysis concluded BRT is a safer financial bet, but LRT would spark more transit-oriented development.
"The actual benefits of both are positive, there's no two ways about it," Sacher said. "At the end of the day, we have to decide what we're looking for."
The HDR report also rejected "automated people-mover" technology, briefly considered by the city in 2009, as unproven.
Winnipeg's indecision on rapid transit has been pilloried by the mayor's opponents, who note the city has spent millions studying transit since Katz was elected in 2004.
Former Winnipeg mayor Glen Murray, who visited city hall Friday, said Winnipeg would already have five transit corridors in place had the city followed through on the bus rapid transit plan Katz cancelled after taking office.
"We're the only city of over half a million in North America that doesn't have a well-developed plan," said Murray, the Ontario MPP for Toronto Centre, referring to Winnipeg.
The first public draft of Our Winnipeg, the city's long-term planning blueprint, calls for new rapid-transit corridors to connect downtown with Transcona and Richardson International Airport.
bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca
Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition June 5, 2010 B1

I like this idea; its a decent hybrid between bus and rail, and just what a city like Winnipeg could use. Hopefully they follow through!

I'm torn on this. I hate the idea of our sky's filled with wires to feed these things...

I could accept them under the right circumstances and if they drive the right development in the city.

Not all feeder lines are above the vehicles. Vienna Subways collect power from the lower side. I also like the idea about using a single central infrastructure and running the trains along both sides of it. This system is more versatile, especially where space is lacking (present single-track train routes).
Just make sure whatever new system adopted, uses electric power, instead of fuel.

Imo we should never have gotten rid of our trolley buses.

I agree with grumpy as the wires are un sightly , now if they were put in the rails or something ?

Ya. Great idea. Live ground rails.

Gee. I wonder how much it would cost to make sure no one stepped on one?

How do other cities deal with the live rails?

They build subways.

Subways often run on the surface.