U.S. firms paid more to CEOs than taxes

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/08/31/us-firms-paid-more-to-ceos-than-taxes

I'm sure many Canadian corporations are in the same boat. How on earth can any tax laws be written to allow a company to earn BILLIONS of dollars in profits and pay practically zero taxes or even receive BILLION in refunds. That is just plain nucking futs. But yet all we hear is how corporate taxes are too high when in reality they are practically nothing. The only taxes these companies generate are in the form of source deductions taken from their employees. This is neither sustainable nor fair. If corporations really are "people" as Rick Perry claims, then perhaps they should be treated as such at tax time as well.



At the very least perhaps they should have to remit their corporate tax bi-weekly at their tax rate based on their revenue and wait till the end of the year to collect a refund like the rest of us. At least then they would at least contribute the interest earned on those finds to the tax base. Why is it ok for the government to hold onto personal income tax funds all year long and then refund the overpayment without paying any interest on those funds but not do the same to corporations? They want to be treated like people in the eyes of the law, then maybe they should also be people when it comes to tax time.

Good propoganda.



First, the story is about the 100 highest paid CEO's and that 25% of the companies that they work for, paid less tax than their renumeration. How many corporations are there in the US anyway?



Second, the story originates from the US. We live in C-A-N-A-D-A.



The legal definition of a corporation is "a legal entity, which has the rights and obligations of an individual, except to vote."



What about all the small-medium enterprises, which are basically a "family" business, but have incorporated for a variety of reasons, and the CEO is the owner who risked his money, put in massive hours in order to create something that employs other people (that means that they get paid, so they can buy houses, cars, groceries, slippers for their wives and school supplies for their kids)



Third, if you stucture your income tax deductions properly, you should have only a small refund or owe a small amount once filing.



Its is always best to get out a big broad brush when we want to make a socialist point.

grumpyrom wrote:http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/08/31/us-firms-paid-more-to-ceos-than-taxes

I'm sure many Canadian corporations are in the same boat. How on earth can any tax laws be written to allow a company to earn BILLIONS of dollars in profits and pay practically zero taxes or even receive BILLION in refunds. That is just plain nucking futs. But yet all we hear is how corporate taxes are too high when in reality they are practically nothing. The only taxes these companies generate are in the form of source deductions taken from their employees. This is neither sustainable nor fair. If corporations really are "people" as Rick Perry claims, then perhaps they should be treated as such at tax time as well.



At the very least perhaps they should have to remit their corporate tax bi-weekly at their tax rate based on their revenue and wait till the end of the year to collect a refund like the rest of us. At least then they would at least contribute the interest earned on those finds to the tax base. Why is it ok for the government to hold onto personal income tax funds all year long and then refund the overpayment without paying any interest on those funds but not do the same to corporations? They want to be treated like people in the eyes of the law, then maybe they should also be people when it comes to tax time.

What difference does it make if the corporation is paying corporate taxes or taxes in forms such as...

- Income Tax
- Payroll Tax
- Property Tax
- Sales Tax

Most of those tax rates are much higher than a corporate tax rate. For instance. A CEO getting $1 million in salary and bonuses would be paying FAR MORE in taxes than if it was just sitting in a corporate account after year end.

Another thing you have to consider is that tax deductions based on expenses is a GOOD thing. That means the corporation is buying goods and services from other companies who are ultimately employing more people and paying more salaries resulting in more taxes being paid my more high priced CEOs.

Take off the blinders and look at the bigger picture here.

We're asking an awful lot from a socialist.

Grumpyrom has never taken advantage of a tax break in his life.

Grumpyrom wants everyone to earn exactly the same money as everyone else no matter their role in the workplace.

Grumpyrom seems satisfied in the lifestyle that was present in Eastern Europe prior to the fall of communism. It seems North Korea and Cuba are societies the whole world should emulate.

But we've had these discussions ad nauseum and we get nowhere. Grumpyrom will now insult someone because we don't believe in the socialist/communist models he advocates for.

Shouldnt all companies strive to pay more to its employees then it does in taxes?

So I'm the socialist nutcase for wondering how on earth anyone can support the idea of a corporation not only paying no taxes but in fact receiving huge refunds by exploiting tax law to what should be a criminal extent?

Please enlighten me on why it's perfectly legal for a multinational corporation to simply set up an empty office in Liechenstein or Switzerland and then claim that as it's headquarters to avoid paying federal income tax in the country it actually operates out of, but yet you or I can't do the same? Why can't I go put in my 9-5pm in this country but claim that my residence is a PO BOX in the Bahamas and pay no personal income tax?

If I were to do that I would be commiting tax fraud but yet laws are written differently for corporations. To whose benefit?

I'm not advocating for a return to Eastern Europe or N.Korean economics as GOM keeps throwing out, while claiming that I am the one doing the insulting. All I'm saying is that it should be obvious to anyone that isn't a card carrying Teabagger that the working class is carrying an ever larger percentage of the tax burden. Prior to the 1960's the percentage of federal revenue in this country as well as the US from corporate income taxes was much, much higher. That entire burden has shifted to the individual taxpayer. I don't see how this is sustainable in the long run.

Despite GOM's best idea's of what my mindset may be, I'd be more interested in seeing Canada and the US (which we are tied to economically wether we like it or not) adopt a socialist mindset more similar to the Scandinavian's. Countries that seem to somehow manage to have robust economies and lack the income disparity that is being more and more prevalent in N.America.

grumpy old man wrote:We're asking an awful lot from a socialist.

Grumpyrom has never taken advantage of a tax break in his life.

Grumpyrom wants everyone to earn exactly the same money as everyone else no matter their role in the workplace.

Grumpyrom seems satisfied in the lifestyle that was present in Eastern Europe prior to the fall of communism. It seems North Korea and Cuba are societies the whole world should emulate.

But we've had these discussions ad nauseum and we get nowhere. Grumpyrom will now insult someone because we don't believe in the socialist/communist models he advocates for.

Who exactly is doing the insulting here? Your assuming an awful lot but can't come up with one single thoughfull point.

I'm done on this forum. You pretty much impossible to debate with unless one wholeheartedly agrees with all Teabagger rhetoric. That's not much of a debate.

I've said it before, you may as well rename your little board the Manitoba Conservative Fan Club- All others stay out. You ever wonder why no other views ever get debated around here? Because you and your little breakfast club posse shout down anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you guys. I'm not the first you've silenced and chased away, I've just stuck around the longest cause I enjoy a good debate and am ammused at how the neo-con mind works (as you probably are by my commie ways equally).

Anyways, it's obvious I'm not welcome around here and I'm sick of trying to have a conversation that doesn't turn into an attack with your likes.

Enjoy your board where everyone thinks alike, just like the N.Koreans. All the best to your cats.

Why can't I go put in my 9-5pm in this country but claim that my
residence is a PO BOX in the Bahamas and pay no personal income tax?

you actually can. That is IF the Bahamas would make you a citizen.

Mind you then you would not get to take advantage of Canada's protection and other such things when travelling..

Grumpyrom, I hope you don't leave. Everyone has the right to their opinions and views.

grumpyrom wrote:Your assuming an awful lot but can't come up with one single thoughfull point.

Au contraire, I did say:

But we've had these discussions ad nauseum and we get nowhere.

You see, this debate always becomes a circle jerk. In the past when you've pointed out how evil business is I've tried to engage in debate. I never got anywhere because you always resorted to insults and then steamed off telling us you're leaving and will never come back.

Grumpyrom, have you ever taken advantage of a tax break?

Grumpyrom, you've often railed on the disparity in income. I'm curious, what income levels should be established that is agreeable? What is the lowest acceptable wage and what is the highest acceptable wage? How do we reconcile a cap?

You know, I really lose any respect for anyone who runs away. Make a comment and be prepared to defend or debate it, but don't run away like a little girl when the heat turns up.

This article is misleading. The USA has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the western world. I was surprised to learn that recently in a 60 minutes special. They featured a handful of the biggest "American" companies - who have moved their official "headquarters" offshore. Mostly to Switzerland and I believe Ireland. The Cisco CEO spoke at length that he "bleeds red, white and blue" however they and many other USA corporates are having to do the same to remain competitive in an increasingly global market.

USA taxation is approx 28% while other countries compete in the 12 - 15% range. Google is in Germany for the same reason. They tracked many of these companies "headquarter" adressess to postal boxes - nothing more - not even an employee in that country. His message to the President was to bring the tax rate in line with their options and they'd be more than happy to end this now wide practice. The math was a loss of $40 billion a year - when the gov't could have realized $20 billion.

Freeman wrote:You know, I really lose any respect for anyone who runs away. Make a comment and be prepared to defend or debate it, but don't run away like a little girl when the heat turns up.

No one is running away, I'm just sick of GOM's first response to any posts he doesn't agree with being a personal attack bringing up commies, the pinko threat and how much I must love N.Korea.. There are less and less people around here that actually want to debate anything, you'd rather all gang up together and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint. I'm just tired of being the socialist whipping boy around here and realise I'm just wasting my time. Had GOM's last post's been his first reply my opinion would be different, but I realise this board is a lost cause. You guys don't want other viewpoints, you want to keep hearing your own voices.

Your own comments only prove my point, you just can't resist throwing out an insult.

I may come back to read the odd comment or two but I really have no further interest in adding my 2 cents. It's clear that it's not wanted. Just wanted to clarfiy that for you.

Yeah, right, but its right for you to post socialist propaganda. You knew the kind of response you would get as soon as you posted.

Just scurry away grumpyrom. You don't really want to discuss this like a man anyway.

You whine about my tossing a few nuggets your way but forget you almost always lead with the nuggets when the going gets tough.

As already stated you KNEW exactly the response you'd engender with your post and your response is to stick your tail between your legs and run away. You seem to do this every time.

My news source says that U.S. firms also pay more to lobby gov't than corporate taxes.

Any perso or corporation has the right,duty to minimize tax bites!

If you are a teacher or hourly worker than you haven't got any choice, but if you are a high priced executive who can afford a good tax consultant, then you are able to reduse the tax bite by structuring your income through a company, set up to reduce the taxes that you have to pay!

That is correct! those that earn an hourly wage cannot write off their auto expenses, while someone earning $1,000,000 gets all sorts of write-offs1

I know someone who produces phoney lunch and supper receipts for business executives, so their take home pay is increased substantially.

Every one earning big bucks does that! Why should they contribute the maximum that Harper wants, when 87% of government expenditures are wasted?

rosencrentz wrote:
Every one earning big bucks does that! Why should they contribute the maximum that Harper wants, when 87% of government expenditures are wasted?

Using your logic,
Why should Joe "Middle class" pay the taxes they pay if "87% of government expenditures are wasted." ?

Made ya bite...

grumpy old man wrote:Made ya bite...

You mean Rosen was doing that "Trolling" thing again?. lol

No trolling, whatever that means, just the hard facts that hourly wage earners don't have much chance for extra write-offs, while businesses have all sorts of expenses to write off in the attempt to make more business.

That makes sense doesn't it?

If you are a corporate president earning $19 million dollars, you have some advisers working out how to minimize your tax bite. That makes sense!

It makes sense, but it doesn't make it right.

I worked for an organization that went public a few years ago, the company made it so that the average Joe could not purchase shares during the IPO, the shares started at $10.00 but they made it so you could only buy $1000 worth at a time. So what ended up happening was all the executives ended up buying up the majority of the shares. That is the kind of greed and manipulation that some execs will do to ensure they their bottom line is covered and be damned to their staff that make them richer each day.