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the winnipeg sandbox » winnipeg sports... » other sports discussion... » League providing bailout to cash-strapped Coyotes

League providing bailout to cash-strapped Coyotes

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rosencrentz
Electrician
grumpy old man
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grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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TORONTO -- The NHL is providing financial assistance to keep the Phoenix Coyotes alive in the form of advances on the franchise's share of league revenue, according to a source at the league board of governors level.

Bill Daly, deputy commissioner of the NHL, did not directly confirm or deny the Coyotes are receiving money. But he did say in an e-mail message that "advances on league distributions are not unusual."

One league governor said he is "99.9 per cent sure" NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has approved providing funds to the financially devastated team, with the permission of the governors' executive and finance committees.

Financial documents obtained by The Globe and Mail show the team has pledged the franchise and all its assets, including all forms of revenue, as collateral for loans from New York company SOF Investments LP.

Team owner Jerry Moyes has been ensuring the Coyotes cover their losses, which are expected to be more than US$30 million this season.

-- The Canadian Press
This team would have been far more successful had it stayed in Winnipeg. The odds of it now existing in Phoenix seem slim. The league will only bail it out once. But Bettman, in all his arrogance, does not want a team to fold, so who knows what will happen. Move? Likely. To Winnipeg? Possible but not likely. Maybe Kansas City.

I understand this franchise lost $600 million in the 12 years since it left. Is Bettman's experiment failing? How many other south based NHL teams will hang on in the current economic state the US is in? Are bad times in the NHL be coming? Will the cap be significantly lowered?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Problem is the man has never understood hockey all he wants is NFL 2 and hockey will not never or can be that . His grasp of the love of the game is in the toilet and the league will end up there if we continue to look to Americans to run it. Sad to say the bullshit they have created doe's not amuse me like it once did .

Electrician

Electrician
general-contributor
general-contributor

Americans make a show and business out of everything. They take the "sport" part out of hockey. Me thinks, they have control of Canadian cities' mayors as well... wanting to abolish street hockey, and all...
Next thing you know, the NHL will be full of expert EA Sports hockey players...

Now to put some gas on the fire, how much was the Jets' debt when they departed for Feenicks?
I'll bet it was peanuts, in comparison...

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Guest

Anonymous
Guest

You are right it was small by comparision some one will find the fiqure . This team seems to be cursed as success doe's not seem to follow it, performance or otherwise .
Wayne it serves you right after laughing at Wpg when we might have drafted you way back when .

rosencrentz

rosencrentz
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If my memory serves me right the payroll figure was around $16 million and Mr. Shenkaro was forecasting increases to $25 million, which would have meant someone would be losing an additional $10 million, and it wasn't going to be him!
i believe also the "rumour" was he needed the cash from the sale to buy some Xmas presents! lol
Wasn't there a figure of $85 million dollars for the franchise to be sold to anyone who kept the team in Wpg, but the outcry from the Winnilosers was "no govt" aid?
Pity! Our only claim to being a major city, and now we only have IKEA to bring us back!

http://www.elansofas.com

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

I understand the NHL Salary Cap is about $56 million per team.
I think there is also a floor salary of $40 million for each team.
And this does not include Management, Coaches, Scouts, Travel, Farm Teams, etc., etc.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
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I believe the only viable option is to have the same owner for the team and the arena. They would need to maximize concession revenues, parking (if any), TV & radio, promotional items such as sweaters etc., creative ticketing (for example maximize for Toronto, Montreal..., minimize for Columbus and Nashville), obtain significant concessions from Winnipeg and Manitoba governments).

It would be a challenge with a 15k seat arena. But under very good management and with a little luck they could break even. That is a far cry from losing $30 million annually eh? It would also bring another city into the league that has a decided passion for the game.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

In a country that gives a dam about hockey, and its future

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

grumpy old man wrote:I believe the only viable option is to have the same owner for the team and the arena. They would need to maximize concession revenues, parking (if any), TV & radio, promotional items such as sweaters etc., creative ticketing (for example maximize for Toronto, Montreal..., minimize for Columbus and Nashville), obtain significant concessions from Winnipeg and Manitoba governments).

It would be a challenge with a 15k seat arena. But under very good management and with a little luck they could break even. That is a far cry from losing $30 million annually eh? It would also bring another city into the league that has a decided passion for the game.

In my opinion most people would agree with everything you said except the part about getting any government involvment. Many people would have a problem with the taxpayer subsidizing millionaire hockey players. Especially at the cost of health care, education, infrastructure, community clubs, etc.
Government involvment in funding proffessional sports would definitely become an election issue. (I.M.H.O.)

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I'm not suggesting hockey players get tax breaks.

Not so much subsidies, but tax concessions (i.e. don't charge entertainment taxes or reduced entertainment taxes). Maybe other tax breaks knowing the city and province would garner significantly greater tax revenues with an NHL team here than if there were no team here.

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

grumpy old man wrote:I'm not suggesting hockey players get tax breaks.

Not so much subsidies, but tax concessions (i.e. don't charge entertainment taxes or reduced entertainment taxes). Maybe other tax breaks knowing the city and province would garner significantly greater tax revenues with an NHL team here than if there were no team here.
What taxes do the Moose and the MTS Centre pay now?

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

I can't say. Don't rightly know. I'd expect they pay the same as the Goldeyes and the Bombers.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

First of all, please show that we gain revenue from a hockey team, rather than it being revenue negative when all things, such as salaries, are considered.

Otherwise, it's corporate welfare...nothing less.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

We? Who is we? The city? The province? The taxpayer? Business?

And corporate welfare? Maybe. Maybe not. My point is not throw money around such that the potential owner grows fatter on the taxpayers back. But that the potential owner does not lose money bringing the NHL to Winnipeg.

I'm putting my thoughts out there for discussion. I've thrown some ideas out . I'm not an accountant J2F.

Maybe Winnipeg does not deserve anything good. What a defeatist and demoralizing attitude some have.

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

What has "deserve" and "not deserve" got to do with anything? Don't let your emotions get in the way of your head when it comes to business. The NHL is a business.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

And this is merely a discussion. Don't let your cynicism get the best of you.

EdWin

EdWin
major-contributor
major-contributor

Here is a post from another forum. Thought this was very interesting. Let the stirring of the pot begin:


i posted this in the hamilton thread as well, but thought it might be
worth discussing here too....for those who think that a 15 000 seat
arena is too small to support NHL hockey.

if an NHL team in winnipeg sold out every game (15 000), it would only
take an average ticket price of $65 US to be in the top 10 for ticket
revenues....edmonton averages $70 and is in 8th.

you could even average 14 000 per game at $65 per ticket and be in the top 12 for ticket revenues.

phoenix averaged $30 per ticket last year.

League providing bailout to cash-strapped Coyotes 32964601cs6

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

And we still don't control the league we need to get that back first screw America as it doe's not know how to run a hockey league . To consumed with making gobs of money.

Outsider

Outsider
contributor plus
contributor plus

EdWin wrote:
if an NHL team in winnipeg sold out every game (15 000), it would only
take an average ticket price of $65 US to be in the top 10 for ticket
revenues....edmonton averages $70 and is in 8th.
At $65 US wouldn't we be paying closer to $85 CDN per ticket.
(Exchange rate + convenience fee + facilties fee) ?? Question

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

And that is just ticket revenue. There are many other revenue streams. As there are many cost streams. It all comes down to good management of both the team itself and the league.

With so many teams on the financial bubble salary caps will have to drop and stay dropped.

grumpy old man

grumpy old man
administrator
administrator

Not sure what "convenience fee" and "facilities fee" are. Are the ticket prices quoted net or are these fees added?

It is important to note those are average ticket prices. At a $65 average price there will be many seats available at much lower prices. But this is not a sport for low income peeps.

Deank

Deank
contributor eminence
contributor eminence

"Not sure what "convenience fee" and "facilities fee" are. Are the ticket prices quoted net or are these fees added?"

the convience fee is the fee that ticketmaster adds just because its "convient" for them to make more money.
The facilities fee is the extra fee for the facility. Kinda crazy eh?

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Heh..it's called a " foo-foo valve fee".

Guest

Anonymous
Guest

Yes sorta like shop fee at the garage or sys access fee on a cell , round about way of gouging you .

Electrician

Electrician
general-contributor
general-contributor

Okay, now let's look at it from another perspective.
How much does it cost to watch an NHL game on PPV right now?
Plus, how much can you save if you calculate a whole family of, let's say, 5 peeps?
Plus, plus, wouldn't you watch your favorite team or at least only the games you're really interested in watching?
And what's the price difference between all the snacks you'd purchase at the game, vs ordering a couple of large pizzas and watching the game in a nice cosy HEATED home?

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