Should Manitoba adopt a better healthcare system?

I'm sitting here, thinking about Canadian health care vrs the American system and I've been thinking about this lots lately and have been speaking to many people about it.

I have come to the conclusion that Canada's current health care system is equivalent to that of the American system for its under insured and/or extremely poor. In other words; if you have insurance or lots of money in the USA then you get the worlds best health care, and if not then you get equivalent to what all Canadians get.

I would love to have the option to be able to purchase (with my own money) better insurance and/or health care than what our Canadian system currently provides us with. I feel that as a middle income tax payer, i am getting screwed from both ends. One end is the poor citizen who sits on welfare and breeds the never ending welfare cycle with their offspring, and the other end "BIG GOVERNMENT" to whom it has been delegated most of our daily decisions regarding our lives. I would rather decide my own fate than have the government do it for me. I would rather decide how best to raise my children than to have the government do it for me.

I look back through out the last 90 years and ask myself what happened, where did our rights go? Why do Criminals have more rights than I do? Why must The middle class carry our society on its back? What the f u c k is wrong with our country when the government is threatened with violence if we celebrate the defeat of New France by the British in Quebec City. And they back down from the separatists. (L. Riel was hung for less).

What is wrong with our country, when it becomes the country of choice to form a criminal organization. Mothers getting gunned down in front of their children. Terrorists getting 40 moths taken off sentences for time served while waiting for trial. Our prisons are like 5 star vacations compared to 90% of others on this planet. I'm a Canadian and lately I'm feeling a lot less Canadian than my Immigrant Grand parents. They were proud to become Canadians, back before "big government" decided they knew whats was best for us.

/rantoff

Can we "un-corrupt" our present systems?

My belief is that we are like a montrous tanker that takes 100 miles to turn around. We can do it, but it will take a lot of change and require people to first realize that we are in a country that has a bureaucracy that is out of control...at least our province appears to be imo.

The bureaucracy is wagging the dog.

Example: A guy bt the name of Ron Stewart worked for the government and actually didn'y show up for most of his 26 years on the job. Google it if you don't believe me.

I don't really worry about it. In the big picture I am not here long enough to care. lol

Hmmm....complacency may be one of the reason we're in our situation eh?

LivingDead wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that Canada's current health care system is equivalent to that of the American system for its under insured and/or extremely poor. In other words; if you have insurance or lots of money in the USA then you get the worlds best health care, and if not then you get equivalent to what all Canadians get.

You really need to watch the movie "Sicko". The movie is not about the 45 million Americans without health care, which on first glance is what you would think.

It's about the disaster that is "health insurance" USA style.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/weinstein/sicko/

Time Lord wrote:

LivingDead wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that Canada's current health care system is equivalent to that of the American system for its under insured and/or extremely poor. In other words; if you have insurance or lots of money in the USA then you get the worlds best health care, and if not then you get equivalent to what all Canadians get.

You really need to watch the movie "Sicko". The movie is not about the 45 million Americans without health care, which on first glance is what you would think.

It's about the disaster that is "health insurance" USA style.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/weinstein/sicko/

whats wrong with Prisoners in Gitmo getting better health service then Mom and Pop Smith?

Time Lord wrote:

LivingDead wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that Canada's current health care system is equivalent to that of the American system for its under insured and/or extremely poor. In other words; if you have insurance or lots of money in the USA then you get the worlds best health care, and if not then you get equivalent to what all Canadians get.

You really need to watch the movie "Sicko". The movie is not about the 45 million Americans without health care, which on first glance is what you would think.

It's about the disaster that is "health insurance" USA style.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/weinstein/sicko/

I have watched sicko.

I have family in the USA who are under-insured and do not have much money. My aunt needed a double by-pass and a few years later needed more heart surgery, had she lived in Canada she would have died waiting for the operations.

I know of some Canadians who were lucky to have been in the USA, on vacation when the need for life saving heart surgery arose, they had travel insurance and are alive today because they fell ill while in the USA. Back at home he would have died, no question about it.

I dont mind universal health care, but I would like the choice to buy private health care, just like I would like the choice of where I purchase auto insurance. Both we are forced to buy from our MONOPOLISTIC FAT BLOATED USELESS PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT.

**alas, we are doomed to retain our current system because of 2 factors, 1 is people who cant be bothered to go out and vote, and 2 is the lock the NDP have in the Unions and monitarily challenged who would perfer to have handouts over helping hands.

We do not need any improvements at all ! I am the perfect example! 3 1/2 years ago I had some pain for a short 3 weeks, and now 3 1/2 years later I have almost continuous pain!
You cannot get any better than that!

LivingDead wrote:I have family in the USA who are under-insured and do not have much money. My aunt needed a double by-pass and a few years later needed more heart surgery, had she lived in Canada she would have died waiting for the operations.

You can't say that because you don't know that.

As bad as our system is and as great is the need to a makeover, if you need medical coverage you can get it. I have ready access to my family doctor. If I break a leg I have access to emergency medical care. If I need surgery I have access to surgeons. If I have cancer I have access to treatment.

Our system is not perfect by any stretch of imagination but to suggest it is equal to a US system for Americans without insurance borders on the ludicrous.

GOM I have to agree with LD....I too have family in the USA and they are insured. They have almost zero wait times for tests...the same tests here would have a wait list of up to 6 months. My Aunt had cancer and she is still alive because they caught it early thanks to an MRI and if she was living here she may be dead. My Dad has been dealing with severe back pain and spasms, he has been to the ER a few times and they don't even run tests! Back spasms can be an indicator of many different illnesses, yet they see him after an 8-10 hr wait and then give him Tylenol 3's and send him on his way. He has a Dr's appt next week which he's had to wait a month for. My Mom well her death could have been prevented.....I guess it would've helped if the ER actually had dr's working on weekends. The system we have here is a fricken joke!!! I have numerour examples of how bad our system is. My friends parents vacation every year in the USA, her Dad had a heart attack while tehre and THANK GOD he had it there and not here. He had quadruple bypass that very day....would it happen here? I highly doubt it!

We here in Canada cannot compete...I had an OBGYN and I called last week to make an appointment and was told I have to get a referral from my GP. I need to get a referral to a Dr who I've already been a patient of? Does that sound right to you?

My issue was not comparing INSURED US service to Canada's system. It was the comparison to the UNINSURED. That said Sicko does illustrate the problems even insured Americans face with their HMOs. But this entire discussion really is an apples and oranges comparison.

Our system is in urgent need of reform. We can see the system is bogged down in bureaucracy. Our socialist like system also tries way too hard to be all things to all people. Which results in a poor vanilla-like health care system that ensures we all receive mediocre care.

I would be all for a two tiered system. The care uninsured people in the US receive is about the same we receive here. I know this from 4 friends in the states who are nurses....3 are ER nurses and one is an ICU nurse. They were all born and raised in Winnipeg...I asked them about the system for the poor and uninsured, they said it's the same as what we get here in Winnipeg with medicare. Of course those who have money and insurance receive faster service, but doesn't that apply to all service orientated businesses? Like it or not, Health Care is a business. I suggest you watch that TV show the Doctors.....if you haven't seen it, watch it. The procedures and tests and meds that Americans have access to is amazing. And if I didn't have money and lived in the States I would go into debt to save someone I loved. How much is your life worth? So many nights I sat up thinking about my Mom, thinking about the crappy system which basically took her sooner....I wonder if we lived in the USA if my Mom would've lived long enough to see her only grandchildren turn 1? My Dad was an Executive with AMAZING insurance. He has insurance for a private room....my Mom never ever had a private room. Pretty sad.

If you need emergency service you get it, but if it isn't life threatening the wait times are horrible.
My experience is that if you insist on getting looked after, eventually you will be looked after.
3 weeks ago my neuro-surgeon gave up on me and my pain, referred me to the pain clinic, and when I called today the pain clinic did not have any record of the Jan 27th request from my neuro surgeon so I called my neuro surgeon who told me that she (asssisstant) did make the request and then I phoned the pain clinic and they told me that they did not get the request so I phoned back to my neuro surgeon and left a message, and so we see how our system may be working or may not be working because I have no f king idea if anyone got the request or the message but it is only 3 1/2 years and 2 spine operations and I am nowhere except in more pain, but it is free!

The health care system doe's need fixing but I don't want the American system cause I have heard to many stories that are from Americans . Many of them have cottages at the lake , and we have shared many stories .

personally i would rather NOT have to look at a sick family member as if they are like a sick pet.. ie: it would be nice to take dad to the hospital and save him but.. gawd.. 20k for tests and whatever... thats a lot of money.. he is pretty old already.. sorry fella but its your time.

i would expect any member of my family to do the same for me. death would be more welcome then that kind of financial ruin.

Well, we still have ice-flows up in the Arctic.

That is where our next prison should be located.

People fear change. The politicians know that and use it to maintain the status quo.

But Obama was elected on a platform of change.

Where it comes to our "health care system' I think most want changes but believe that things won't change...kinda' resigned to the fact that our system sucks but we can't do much about it with the politicans we now have.

So should a better healthcare system include legalized assisted suicide ?
(After all isn't legalized assisted suicide better than watching someone slowlyyyyyyyyyyy die) ?

What's suicide got to do with Health Care?

Upon reflection....you may be on to something... we all may be forced to consider this as an alternative as our system sure doesn't prevent death....and by not doing anything, it encourages other avenues of consideration to end suffering.

Outsider wrote:So should a better healthcare system include legalized assisted suicide ?
(After all isn't legalized assisted suicide better than watching someone slowlyyyyyyyyyyy die) ?

34 hours is not that slow.

JTF wrote:What's suicide got to do with Health Care?

Upon reflection....you may be on to something... we all may be forced to consider this as an alternative as our system sure doesn't prevent death....and by not doing anything, it encourages other avenues of consideration to end suffering.

There are too many cases where the medical system simply can't help the patients ailment.
Why prolong the inevitable, especially if the patient is in real pain?
If we can put dogs & cats out of their misery, why not people?
I would not be surprised to hear of patients asking (begging ?) their friends or families to "pull the plug" for them.
Maybe we need a survey?

Start a thread...it's an interesting topic.

Absolutely. Start a new thread as the topic is intriguing and it does not really belong in this thread.