Intersting video I found on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk
Say what you want about the porn industry, but I think this video speaks for itself. Great song by Sixx AM (band formed by ex-Motley Crue member Niki Sixx).

Seems like a risky business with all the deaths, or are the deaths in proportion to the number of people involved in the business?

Seems to me if you're going to do a video about porn stars...the shots should be below the neckline.

Nobody is going to recognize these people from that slideshow.

Wow, that's kind of a mean thing to say when your dealing with a video about suicides and tragic deaths.

Well let's put it this way. Aces isn't the most sensitive guy in the world. At least that' what one of his ex-girlfriends told me;....

Sensitivity aside for the moment, if you recognize pornstars from piciutres from the neckline down, it might be time for a new hobby.

Freeman wrote:Sensitivity aside for the moment, if you recognize pornstars from piciutres from the neckline down, it might be time for a new hobby.

Porn Stars are in many ways no different from models. I don't think too many peoplewould recognize porn stars from the neck down. It not only defies logic, but it is not human nature. If a beautiful athletic naked woman came up to you and kissed you, it's 10x more likely you will remember her eyes than any body part. Second would be facial features excluding eyes, then hair, smell, then body tone. The last thing you are going to remember are her tits or vagina.

It's not insensitive...it's a lack of caring.

I watched that video...most of the deaths were either suicide (self-inflicted...so who cares...and good riddance), or contracted through their choice of profession.

If I chose to be a tight-rope walker, and I jumped off a line somewhere to my death...it's not tragic..it's part of the job...a risk I've taken and knew ahead of time. If I fall though and the net doesn't catch me...then I've taken a precaution, and the precaution failed...that's tragic.

I have little tolerance for those who are stupid or have given up. So of the few dozen people on that video...and the descriptions of their deaths, I'd probably sympathize with maybe 3. The rest...can be submitted for the Darwin Awards.

Agreed.

Cause I figure the living are most of the time just as dense, they think the world is here to kiss there ass. Listen to the crap they put out trying to get what they want . So for them I have little sorrow. As for porn stars I agree they knew the risk going in. How judgemental you sound AgeAces what puts your life to be better then theirs.

I'm not putting my life better than anyone's.

If I decide I can't take my life anymore, and I choose to go shoot myself in the head (as several in that video), or I choose to OD on drugs (again in the video), I would not want anyone else to have sympathy for me. I gave up on life...and believed it was better for me not to live it. Despite the thousands upon thousands of outreach and assistance programs available.

If my job of choice was to unnecessarily take a risk every day...then it's my own fault.

I'll use this as an example for you...and this is to address the idiots in that video who died because they got some kind of disease.

I have 40 workers who I am responsible for teaching and providing a safe work environment for. They are told to wear hard hats at all times. They are told to wear approved footwear and clothing at all times. They are taught the proper way of using fall protection and working with dangerous materials.

Now...if one of them has a cinderblock fall on their head, and they AREN'T wearing their hardhat, because it was "uncomfortable", "too hot", "annoying", "can't see", etc...I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM. They KNEW the risk, they chose to ignore it and did not provide their proper protection.

In fact, I would probably be quite annoyed and ticked off at them...because NOW...due to THEIR incompetence and choice...MY LIFE is turned upside down trying to find someone else to blame. MY LIFE is put under scrutiny and our company is ripped apart because we didn't hit him in the head with a 2x4 to begin with to teach him to wear his hard hat.

So, is my life better? No...but at least I have the decency and consideration that if I'm stupid, I know I'll effect others around me should something happen.

And, not to condone the job of porn star...cause there's NO WAY IN HELL I'd let my daughter do that job...it's a job...and thousands of people are doing it voluntarily. Thousands of people make money from it, and in some cases very good money...just like every other profession out there. The fact that those 100 or so in the video couldn't hack it or had problems from it gets no sympathy from me. And if you think about it...there were maybe 100 people in the video spanning an industry of about 30 years' time. Of the probably 100,000 people who do that job...those aren't bad odds.

Consider that each year nearly 200 people in Canada alone die in the Construction Industry. Let's see the youtube video for that.

My god do you ever come across as a self righteous arrogant little prick. I'm pretty sure you tone down that attitude at work, cause I'm pretty familiar with most of the guys who work construction and I'm sure they'd put you in your place pretty quick.

"Now...if one of them has a cinderblock fall on their head, and they AREN'T wearing their hardhat, because it was "uncomfortable", "too hot", "annoying", "can't see", etc...I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM. They KNEW the risk, they chose to ignore it and did not provide their proper protection.

In fact, I would probably be quite annoyed and ticked off at them...because NOW...due to THEIR incompetence and choice...MY LIFE is turned upside down trying to find someone else to blame. MY LIFE is put under scrutiny and our company is ripped apart because we didn't hit him in the head with a 2x4 to begin with to teach him to wear his hard hat."

Are you serious? You'd be more worried about having to deal with the fallout from having to deal with the accident investigation than the fact that someone no longer has a husband, father,brother or son? Ever hear of a word called compassion? Or did you miss that day at school?

Oh, and BTW a hard had isn't going to do f' all in the case of a cinderblock falling on your head. Poor example. Your skull is going to go splat either way.

grumpyrom wrote:Are you serious? You'd be more worried about having to deal with the fallout from having to deal with the accident investigation than the fact that someone no longer has a husband, father,brother or son? Ever hear of a word called compassion? Or did you miss that day at school?

Compassion? Yes...I have compassion for their family, for the coworkers. I have compassion for everyone on that site who is now out a day's pay because it has to be closed down to deal with the tragedy.

And I'm not talking about the guy who does everything right and still gets hurt. I'm aware that accidents can happen, and that PPE does not always solve the problem. I'm talking about the complete idiot who despite being told OVER AND OVER again to put his hard hat on. Despite being given examples of other idiots who wouldn't wear theirs. Despite company policy. Despite regulation. Despite being written up.

I have kicked guys OFF of our sites (from subtrades) who refused to wear their hardhat for whatever "principle" they were trying to prove.

I've argued in other threads about seatbelt laws. I hate them, I disagree with them. For me to be required to wear a seatbelt when I drive is stupid and does NOTHING to improve my driving skills, or how I handle a vehicle on the road. It does NOTHING to improve how other idiots handle their vehicles around me. But I recommend to EVERYONE to wear a seatbelt becaues it's the RIGHT thing to do.

When it comes to your job though...protest all you like...if it's YOUR company...but when you work for someone else, now you're effecting others. Now those around you have to deal with your insubordination, and if something happens, it's not YOU that pays, it's your employer, and everyone else they deal with.

So arrogant little prick? Maybe. But our company has the highest safety rating you can get in construction. And we were recently audited and scored the highest score yet on the audit process. On my sites, with my workers...I don't walk around going...wear your hardhat or I'm going to laugh when a cinderblock lands on your head. I do the "PC" thing in most cases, or just simply point to the hat that's on MY head...it doesn't mean that if he takes his hat off after I leave and then gets hit in the head with a hammer...I'm going to feel any different about his own stupidity.

grumpyrom wrote:Oh, and BTW a hard had isn't going to do f' all in the case of a cinderblock falling on your head. Poor example. Your skull is going to go splat either way.

And on this one...you're WAY off.

A cinderblock hitting a man in the head from 6" COULD kill him if he's not wearing a hardhat. If he's wearing one though, the odds are reduced by more than 90% for risk of death, and 100% for cuts and abrasions of impact. With a hardhat, about the only thing it might do is cause a neck or spinal injury.

I'll grant that a cinderblock from 10' or more could probably splatter a head, with or without a hardhat....but MOST falls that distance, someone would have time to yell and give the guy below an off-chance of moving. And with a hardhat...a glancing blow will not do too much damage to the worker's scalp/skin/skull.

And...I know, because I've seen it happen.

Ages, I assume you are comparing the deaths in the construction industry in relation to people refusing to follow safety procedures, as compared to the AIDS deaths in the pornography industry, due to performers not wearing protection (condoms). However, giving this comparison to us proves you don't know much about the adult industry (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just a bad choice of comparison).

The construction industry is highly regulated, and employers are mainly responsible for the health and safety of their employees when they are working. Which basically means, if you see a worker NOT wearing a hard hat, steel-toe boots, etc., you have to take action, and inform them that they must follow pocedures on site. Otherwise, if the worker is hurt while not wearring the proper PPE, you will most likely have to deal with a Occupational Health & Safety review, and risk having your business fined heavily or shut down.

There are NO regulations to govern the adult entertainment industry. Most pornographers STILL insist on their performers NOT using condoms. If the actor/actress objects, they will be met with a "well if you won't work without a condom, I can find someone to replace you in a couple of hours". So there is where your argument fails. As recently as 4 years ago, there was a big HIV scare in the pornography industry because one idiot went to Brazil, and had sex with transvestites, only to return to the US HIV+., and infecting half a dozen of his co-workers.

One girl who happened to be Canadian, was told she would have to do a high risk scene, which as first she refused to do. The pornographer threatened to fire her. so here she is doing incredibly risky scenes, and not allowed to use condoms. Of course, she could technically walk away, but that would mean working for 75% less money, getting a bad rep in her business, and working for an employer who pays a fraction of what she made doing the risky scene (it's appearantly well known in the industry that the more riskier/degrading scenes you perform, the more money you make).

So to sum it up, comparing the industry to the construction industry is just foolish, as they are as different as apples and oranges.

No...they really aren't that different..just in different stages of development.

Until the late 60s, it was actually legal in Canada for a Master Tradesman to beat his Apprentice for doing something incorrectly. And "walking" off the job was unheard of then too.

The porn industry is actually HIGHLY regulated...at least the "legitimate" porn industry is (if you can call it that). So much so that many companies require all performers (no matter their "star status) to get tested prior to shooting any kind of film. They require all the women to be on some kind of birth-control, and the men to wear condoms until the "money shot".

There will always be slum filmmakers, the same as there are construction companies out there who do not require hard hats, or proper footwear. The same as there are restaurants that have high-risk areas, or manufacturing with 2nd-rate equipment.

But yes...that was my comparison...in that they STILL had a choice. They could walk away from THAT company and go to another. They could go work in another industry. They could go find something else to do, which would not put them at that risk.

And again...I think I stated before...I do have compassion, for a very small number of those in that video. Not everyone makes the "right" decisions in life...the right choices. Things happen...and you can't always control them...or you're wrapped up in a "moment" and let your conscience slip a bit. But it does come down to choices...and sympathizing with a bad circumstance is easy...sympathizing with bad choices...even with the knowledge and education available...is difficult.

AGEsAces wrote:
The porn industry is actually HIGHLY regulated...at least the "legitimate" porn industry is (if you can call it that). So much so that many companies require all performers (no matter their "star status) to get tested prior to shooting any kind of film. They require all the women to be on some kind of birth-control, and the men to wear condoms until the "money shot".

That's totally false. Most of the big name companies have no policy regarding use of condoms, and some even discourage it. Just curious, and not trying to be rude but, where did you get your facts?

There will always be slum filmmakers, the same as there are construction companies out there who do not require hard hats, or proper footwear. The same as there are restaurants that have high-risk areas, or manufacturing with 2nd-rate equipment.

Difference is that in the construction industry that is very rare, compared to it being common in the porn industry. Additionally, if some gets hurt or dies, there is a full investigation of the incident in the construction industry. Not so in the adult film industry.

And again...I think I stated before...I do have compassion, for a very small number of those in that video. Not everyone makes the "right" decisions in life...the right choices. Things happen...and you can't always control them...or you're wrapped up in a "moment" and let your conscience slip a bit. But it does come down to choices...and sympathizing with a bad circumstance is easy...sympathizing with bad choices...even with the knowledge and education available...is difficult.

Yeah, and I suppose most of the women chose to do porn just for kicks, and to make good money. Do you not realize that almost all the actresses were molested as children, come from broken homes, were abused or rejected by their parents, or are from countries where they were smuggled into the US, only to realize that the only method to pay off the men who got her in America, is to make porn?

You make it sound like these performers chose to do porn because they are weak. The truth is that most of the performers come from highly dysfunctional homes, are from a lower socio-economic class, and were in most cases either physically, sexually, and emotionally abused by influential friends, family members, and people in position of authority. You have to walk in someone else's shoes before you can pass judgement.

"You have to walk in someone else's shoes before you can pass judgement."

No sh1t eh? Guess they don't teach that at Mormon Church. Better to cast judgement and be a"good Christian". LMFAO.

AGEsAces wrote:

grumpyrom wrote:Oh, and BTW a hard had isn't going to do f' all in the case of a cinderblock falling on your head. Poor example. Your skull is going to go splat either way.

And on this one...you're WAY off.

A cinderblock hitting a man in the head from 6" COULD kill him if he's not wearing a hardhat. If he's wearing one though, the odds are reduced by more than 90% for risk of death, and 100% for cuts and abrasions of impact. With a hardhat, about the only thing it might do is cause a neck or spinal injury.

I'll grant that a cinderblock from 10' or more could probably splatter a head, with or without a hardhat....but MOST falls that distance, someone would have time to yell and give the guy below an off-chance of moving. And with a hardhat...a glancing blow will not do too much damage to the worker's scalp/skin/skull.

And...I know, because I've seen it happen.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but hard hat or not I'm assuming a 50lb weight dropping on your head from 6ft will cause at minimum a pretty severe neck injury. I don't buy the stat's that the manufacturers claim. You'd probably survive, but your going to be f'ed up. Any higher than that, and I'm betting the hat and your head crack like an egg.

Would you volunteer to try it since your so sure of your stats?

And BTW, I advocate wearing PPE..but try and be realistic. It'll stop small objects but not a cinderblock. No way in hell.

grumpyrom wrote:"You have to walk in someone else's shoes before you can pass judgement."

No sh1t eh? Guess they don't teach that at Mormon Church. Better to cast judgement and be a"good Christian". LMFAO.

I wouldn't lump the LDS with the mainstream Christian community....

First...read my post...it doesn't say 6 feet, it says 6 inches.

Next...what kind of stupid statement is "you have to walk in someone else's shoes..."? So every judge sitting on a bench somewhere should've been a car thief, murderer, or rapist before they can pass judgment? Yeah...that'll work.

And, my apologies for the regulation information...it's the Australian porn industry that is becoming highly regulated. I have a friend I had met years' ago who works in the industry in Australia. They generally comment about "the industry" and my own assumptions lumps them all together.

Upon further research, I've found others in the US & Canada are clamoring for MORE regulation.

The severe regulation in the industry in North America has been targeting under-age filming...not the health and welfare of the performers.

As for where they get the performers...I don't know...but just like I have a choice of waking up in the morning and going to a job I like or don't like...so do they. Would I get fired for not showing up? Probably. Could I find a different job in another industry? Most likely. Would it pay the same? Have the same hours? Benefits? Probably not...but it's still a choice...not always an easy one.

There are many in the porn industry who do it because they enjoy it. There are many who do it because they think it's all they can do. There are many who do it because they feel they have to. But they still choose to do it.

Sorry, didn't catch the inches part...your correct. But seriously, how many cinderblocks fall from 6"? LOL. For that matter, how many "anythings" fall onto someones head from 6 inches up? I have no idea the stats, but I'm guessing most dropped objects fall more than a couple feet, not a couple inches. Nuff said, I'm not beating this dead horse anymore. Moral of the story, don't drop cinderblocks.

Back to the topic, you really do come off as incredibly insensitive. Must be great living your life feeling so morally superior to those around you making their "choices". You seriously went to church as a kid, and grew up feeling the way you do? Did you pay any attention at all?

Wether or not your Christian I feel the saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" to be highly appropriate. Just curious why you feel the need to be so judgemental about people who's lives clearly took a turn for the worst for one reason or another?

Waching that video only brought out feelings of sympathy, pity and compasion in me. Not sure why after watching it you feel the need to pass judgement on these complete strangers. Perhaps under the different circumstances it could have been someone you knew or cared about.

grumpyrom wrote:Sorry, didn't catch the inches part...your correct. But seriously, how many cinderblocks fall from 6"? LOL. For that matter, how many "anythings" fall onto someones head from 6 inches up? I have no idea the stats, but I'm guessing most dropped objects fall more than a couple feet, not a couple inches. Nuff said, I'm not beating this dead horse anymore. Moral of the story, don't drop cinderblocks.

No more dead horses...but quite often, when someone is handing a cinderblock up to the guy on the next level of scaffolding...THAT'S when the slip occurs...generally 6" - 1' above their heads.

grumpyrom wrote:Back to the topic, you really do come off as incredibly insensitive. Must be great living your life feeling so morally superior to those around you making their "choices". You seriously went to church as a kid, and grew up feeling the way you do? Did you pay any attention at all?

I said in another thread, and so I guess I'll repeat it here...churches do NOT teach tolerance, compassion, or sensitivity!!! They teach you that if you don't believe what THEY believe, then you're going to hell and be damned for eternity.

That said...I do have compassion for people affected by their choices. I never said I didn't. I said people make choices and they live with them, and that some make poor choices and they live (or die) with them. I'm not going to feel sorry for people who make stupid choices even knowing what they do.

I can understand if someone makes a poor choice because they didn't know the risks. Or because they didn't know what the outcome could be. A prime example from my field would be those afflicted with Asbestosis in today's society. Most of them were infected 20+ years ago because they weren't wearing respirators or at minimum a simple face mask. Why? Because they didn't know the risk was there. Or it was believed to be a negligible one.

There were a few in that video that got AIDS or some other disease 20+ years ago. For them, I do sympathize a bit. Many diseases being found today, were unheard of when they were infected. And control and education then was much more limited.

It's not about lack of compassion...it's about lack of compassion for those who, despite knowing the risks, take them anyway and something goes wrong.

Here's a PRIME example of what I mean...you know those videos that are popping up all over...where the idiot goes flying off a roof on his bicycle...only to crash to the ground and break 3 bones? No sympathy. He's a moron...I would've rather he cracked his head on the ground so that some other idiot MIGHT get the message and not try it. But NO!!! TV Shows like AFV, Ellen, Oprah, etc. have decided to GLORIFY these idiots by showing the videos on INTERNATIONAL Television...which means there will be MORE of the idiots out there trying to "outdue" what they saw. Would you want your son/daughter to go out there and try something stupid like that...ESPECIALLY on videotape? Now let's go watch the youtube video for the idiots who broke more than their bones...and feel sorry for their stupidity.

grumpyrom wrote:Whether or not your Christian I feel the saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" to be highly appropriate. Just curious why you feel the need to be so judgemental about people who's lives clearly took a turn for the worst for one reason or another?

I would never say I'm perfect. I've done my fair share of stupid things in life. Heck...I did 3 today that I can think of. My point is not being judgmental...it's looking at a situation and assessing whether it could have been prevented...and if so...how. Could those people who committed suicide NOT pulled the trigger? NOT taken the pills? Absolutely...so they KNEW what they were doing, and chose to do it. If I had someone close to me who did the same thing...I'd feel sad for the loss, I'd feel compassion for others who were close, and I'd lament as to whether I could have prevented it...but I would not feel sorry for the person who pulled that trigger. They gave up, they didn't ask for help, because if they had exhausted EVERY avenue before pulling that trigger...then they would have had to have asked ME for help...and I would've done something to stop them.

Again...I'm not perfect...I've had moments in life where I thought it would be better to be dead than alive. That the world would be better off without me. That the world is not worth living in because too many people have given up on making it a worthwhile place to stay. But I look at my wife, or my daughter, or think about my family, a friend...even some I haven't spoken to in years. I think of just one thing that brings me back to why I should stay...and why I should survive...and realize it's only hard if you let it be. That pulling that trigger, while it may seem like the hardest thing in the world to do...is the easy way out for only one person.

grumpyrom wrote:Watching that video only brought out feelings of sympathy, pity and compasion in me. Not sure why after watching it you feel the need to pass judgment on these complete strangers. Perhaps under the different circumstances it could have been someone you knew or cared about.

After watching it, I didn't pass judgment...I made a joke. I commented that most people would not recognize them because there were no shots below the neckline. I belittled the industry, by trying to be funny. Apparently, some people did not get/like the joke...others, may have laughed their ass off. Quite honestly, I've since explained how the video made me feel...and I do understand that whoever made it did so as a gesture of remembrance and education for those who have suffered and to those who are unaware of the situation.

I got all that...but I would get more out of a video of fallen soldiers, who...despite the risks of being killed...volunteered anyway and went to work. Or of fallen police, fire, emergency service who put their lives on the line and take risks most people would be unwilling or unable to take, for the benefit of much more than just paying the bills. Or if the video was strictly about those who were (as mentioned by someone else) kidnapped girls "sold" into the business, or forced in by some scum...because they didn't make the choice to do it. And if they had left out all of those who committed suicide...I might have been more moved.

But in general...I made a joke...about an industry. An industry where these people were all a part...and where, if it was just a video of current porn stars (not dead ones)...would probably have been funnier. Excuse my sense of humour if you don't like it...I've always had a dark one...but I didn't make a post passing judgment...I simply made a joke...and then someone else passed judgment on me.

grumpyrom wrote:Sorry, didn't catch the inches part...your correct. But seriously, how many cinderblocks fall from 6"? LOL. For that matter, how many "anythings" fall onto someones head from 6 inches up? I have no idea the stats, but I'm guessing most dropped objects fall more than a couple feet, not a couple inches. Nuff said, I'm not beating this dead horse anymore. Moral of the story, don't drop cinderblocks.

Back to the topic, you really do come off as incredibly insensitive. Must be great living your life feeling so morally superior to those around you making their "choices". You seriously went to church as a kid, and grew up feeling the way you do? Did you pay any attention at all?

Wether or not your Christian I feel the saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" to be highly appropriate. Just curious why you feel the need to be so judgemental about people who's lives clearly took a turn for the worst for one reason or another?

Waching that video only brought out feelings of sympathy, pity and compasion in me. Not sure why after watching it you feel the need to pass judgement on these complete strangers. Perhaps under the different circumstances it could have been someone you knew or cared about.

This is probably one of the best posts I've seen here in quite some time. I guess ACES "church" didn't teach him about human compassion. Or perhaps they did, and the message was lost on him...

AGEsAces wrote:
I said in another thread, and so I guess I'll repeat it here...churches do NOT teach tolerance, compassion, or sensitivity!!! They teach you that if you don't believe what THEY believe, then you're going to hell and be damned for eternity.

Maybe you should stop going to whatever church you had been attending and try another one if that's what their message is. Don't paint all Churches in the same brush.

I would never say I'm perfect. I've done my fair share of stupid things in life. Heck...I did 3 today that I can think of. My point is not being judgmental.

You certainly could have fooled me...

..it's looking at a situation and assessing whether it could have been prevented...and if so...how. Could those people who committed suicide NOT pulled the trigger? NOT taken the pills? Absolutely...so they KNEW what they were doing, and chose to do it. If I had someone close to me who did the same thing...I'd feel sad for the loss, I'd feel compassion for others who were close, and I'd lament as to whether I could have prevented it...but I would not feel sorry for the person who pulled that trigger. They gave up, they didn't ask for help, because if they had exhausted EVERY avenue before pulling that trigger...then they would have had to have asked ME for help...and I would've done something to stop them.

Well after reading what you have said in this topic, I can hardly blame an individual for not coming to you for help. BTW, are you aware that most people who end up committing suicide drop tons of hints, and even disclose their intentions to their close friends/family members.

After watching it, I didn't pass judgment...I made a joke. I commented that most people would not recognize them because there were no shots below the neckline. I belittled the industry, by trying to be funny. Apparently, some people did not get/like the joke...others, may have laughed their ass off. Quite honestly, I've since explained how the video made me feel...and I do understand that whoever made it did so as a gesture of remembrance and education for those who have suffered and to those who are unaware of the situation.

I got all that...but I would get more out of a video of fallen soldiers, who...despite the risks of being killed...volunteered anyway and went to work. Or of fallen police, fire, emergency service who put their lives on the line and take risks most people would be unwilling or unable to take, for the benefit of much more than just paying the bills. Or if the video was strictly about those who were (as mentioned by someone else) kidnapped girls "sold" into the business, or forced in by some scum...because they didn't make the choice to do it. And if they had left out all of those who committed suicide...I might have been more moved.

There you go again, comparing apples to oranges (fallen soldiers to suicides in the adult entertainment insustry). You just don't get it do you?