Does Dr. Henry Morgentaler deserve the Order of Canada?

Is this a religious issue? A freedom issue? A personal and private issue? Does ANYONE have a right to tell women what they can and cannot do in this matter?

So the question is has Morgentaler done anything of such significance that he merits the Order of Canada?

I'm not so sure.

No, MOrgentaler does not deserve the Order of Canada. Its not an issue about abortion or womens rights, its what does the Order stand for. Morgentaler brought controversy and the subject openly divided the country into 2 camps.

Think about it for a moment, the Order includes Terry Fox and I have a great deal of difficulty in rationalizing how Morgentaler could be honoured in the same way.

What Morgentaler did for women was so profound! He brought a safe way of handling abortions for women who wanted to terminate their pregnancy!
All that was available was butcher shops, which caused serious , unsafe procedures!
Take your religious views and keep them out of everyone else's lives!
Damn religion is the cause of everything bad in the whole world!
Look at all the killings in every country and what do you have? One religion killing another religion! It is so embarassing! Can anyone explain that away?

"I will kill you if you don't accept my religion!"
Where do you learn that?
Oops, there go some friendships!! I hope no one comes to kill me!!

How did Kim Campbell get the award??

What actaully happened is that the abortion law was struck down and now we have a vacuum. There is no law. Technically a women can abort up until her due date, provided she could find a doctor willing to do that. I know Calgary hospitals preform late term abortions. What pro-life people want is what most other countries have. A limit set on how late a women can abort. I think most countries it is around the 20th week or so. However pro-choice people see that as meaning making abortion illegal.

One of my beefs with abortion, besides the fact that I do think it is killing a child, is that abortions are paid with public money at private clinics. If they were only done at hospitals, than fine. But pro-choice people complain that women need better access. That they shouldn't have to travel great distances to get an abortion. Which makes me wonder why as there are countless other people who have to travel to receive care for other medical care and sometimes wait a while to get it. What makes abortion so special. It's the double standards that I don't like where the abortion is concerned. We aren't suppose to have private clinics but it is ok for abortions to preformed at private clinics which Morgentaler profits from. New Brunswick only preforms abortions at hospitals. If a women wants an abortion at a private clinic she has to pay for that out of pocket. Morgentaler is challenging that.

I also read some where that he basically backmailed the politicians in repealing the law. Apparently he was going to name publicaly the abortions he performed for various familiy members of the politicians

No I don't think he should have received the award.

nope he should not recieve the award.

If Morgentaler deserves the award , then so does Marc Emory.

Marc Emory would be a great choice, certainly better than Kim , bimbo, Campbell!
Morgentaler spent 10 years in jail until his challenge was upheld by the Supreme Court.
Interesting tid bit that I ever heard about his blackmailing families who used his easy, safe access to an abortion, all the while voting against the legalizing the safe, free access to an abortion.
Morgentaler never benefited from his stand, unless he sells the award!
He felt compassion for the poor females who couldn't afford the procedure and ended up being butchered by some backroom hack.
He saved many lives, that is why he got the award.
It is so controversial because of the people who believe that he is killing a living persn, when the law states that a fetus is not a living person!
That is a tough one to call!
I do not believe in "the I am holier than you" group , mainly because religion is the root of almost all killing in the world!
I cannot understand how one can believe in God , go to church, chapel, mosque, synagogue, whatever, and then go out and kill others because they do not believe in your religion!
There is no God! There is just evil man!

Just b/c the law says a fetus isn't a person doesn't make it so.

Yes Morgnetaler does profit from his private clinics.

If we can have private clinics for abortions then we should also have private clinics for other procedures funded by tax dollars. Just think, you would have been seen to so much sooner and wouldn't have to had suffered in pain for as long as you did.

libermom wrote:If we can have private clinics for abortions then we should also have private clinics for other procedures funded by tax dollars. Just think, you would have been seen to so much sooner and wouldn't have to had suffered in pain for as long as you did.

We do. There are plenty of private clinics. Now they are opening private MRI labs. Medicine is evolving. Just tediously slowly.

Question: When does a tree become a tree?

JTF wrote:Question: When does a tree become a tree?

Did you know that Tree's sing. It was discovered by accident by a guy doing sub-sonic research. Tree's sing at such a low frequency that most animals can not detect it.



NO. the Dr. should not get the order of Canada. He did what he felt was needed, good for him.

The private clinic for abortions came into effect because the "Roman Catholic" run hospitals wouldn't provide the required "procedure", in a timely manner!

Morgentaler ignored the laws that were in effect, risked being murdered, to get a procedure done, without the female having to fly overseas for a stupid operation that would not be performed locally, by a professional.
At that time , many females died from infection from being operated on by amateurs!

How many women died because of backroom abortions? Six? Seven? Twenty? Thirty thousand?

Morgentaler made a fortune doing abortions. Having the government fund them, made him even more cash.

not true- never made a fortune- he spent his money on opening clinics to help the women find a safe abortion.
How much money did he earn in jail?
How much spent on legal fees? heartache??

Lots of google information- He worked in a poor Montreal neighbourhood after surviving the death camps of the Nazis, during WWII.
That tells me why he got involved in saving poor females . It was the right thing to do, except if you were brought up in a manner where your Church forbids abortions.
If you are stuck with that upbringing, then I can understand why you are against abortions, and since this is Canada you have your right to protest, and even as some have done shoot and kill some Doctors who were doing abortions, because it seems to me that, that is consistant with right wing or left wing Jihadists or extremists who want to kill people who drew a cartoon of Mohammed, another deed that should be punishable by death!!

Actually killing babies is nothing new. Ancients did it all the time. A baby wasn't a person until it was named. All we have done was to improve on the methods to kill infants and decided infants weren't persons until they were born.

...and that makes a lot of sense NOT.

It never fails to amaze me the way humankind can justify almost anything....one moment you're just a piece of meat (tissue) and the next a human being eh. Amazing.

If the country is "divided into two camps" on the abortion issue, Morgentaler didn't create that. Maybe he publicized it, brought it out into the open, whereas before it was in the shadows. But he didn't start the fire.

Having abortion be legal is the only way to make sure it is safe. Having it be illegal does not stop it from being done. No matter how anybody feels about the fetus or whether it's a baby or not. So what exactly would be the point in having it be illegal.

JTF wrote:...and that makes a lot of sense NOT.

It never fails to amaze me the way humankind can justify almost anything....one moment you're just a piece of meat (tissue) and the next a human being eh. Amazing.

I was rambling. Thinking out loud that there is nothing new under the sun. We've only become sophisicated at destroying life.

Rosencrentz, the church or religion wasn't to blame for women finding themselves in a predicament of an unwanted pregnancy. Their choices were. I would think with having access to abortion limited, people then would have thought long and hard about engaging in sex outside of marraige as the consquences would have been more severe. Is it really a bad thing for people to take a sobering second thought of their actions?

However, I don't think abortion can ever be illegal again, for various reasons. But, I do think there should be time limits on how late into a pregnancy a women can terminate.

Also the thing about private clinics performing other operations....not all medical procedures can be performed at private clinics. what bugs me though is these rabid pro-choice feminnists that insist on abortions being done at private clinics tend to be very anti private health care. Obviously the irony and the double standard of it all is lost on them.

Rosencrentz, a belief in God or a religion isn't a terrible thing. Man will use whatever excuse to behave badly. If it wasn't religion it would something else. Rejecting a faith b/c people have preverted for their own selfish means is kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

rosencrentz wrote:The private clinic for abortions came into effect because the "Roman Catholic" run hospitals wouldn't provide the required "procedure", in a timely manner!

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaate!

--Monty Python song

I think life starts at conception!

incognito wrote:

rosencrentz wrote:The private clinic for abortions came into effect because the "Roman Catholic" run hospitals wouldn't provide the required "procedure", in a timely manner!

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaate!

--Monty Python song

Does this mean every time I masturbate, I commit mass murder?

Geesh...I've killed the population of the planet then...thousands of times over.

rosencrentz wrote:I think life starts at conception!

Why would you say that?
Can an embryo be removed and survive without extreme measures?

Would you then accuse any woman who had a miscarriage of murder? Or illegal disposal of a dead body? Most miscarriages end up going down a toilet somewhere...or thrown in the trash.

I think the only way to determine when "life" begins...is biologically. When that fetus can be extracted (either through normal childbirth or c-section) and survive without EXTREME measures. (few tubes and a sanitary cube are not extreme...they are the same thing they would provide an adult who was having medical issues).

Didn't life begin through immaculate conception? Or was it the big bang. I'm so confused...